Subject: Here's my Permission Request!
Author:
Posted on: 2023-02-18 00:11:11 UTC
Oh jeez, am I nervous. But I have my little Permission document ready right here. Huge thanks to Linstar as well as to my younger sibling for betaing.
And now to wait for the Permission givers' response.
Me: Oh, a Permission Giver should probably check on that.
Also me: Oh, I'm a Permission Giver!
Anyway, I'd like a bit more context about the chosen continua as the backgrounds for your agents as well as the badfic. The Gryphon Generation, from a cursory glance at Google and Goodreads, seems to be set in the contemporary U.S. with humans and gryphons side-by-side? Is the genetic engineering Gryphon thing a global phenomenon in-universe? Can you only be a bird native to your country? As for Frederick, what continuum is the Eagleverse? It does sound like they're both from sci-fi continua, but one more space sci-fi than the other.
Part of the reason I'm asking this is because the control prompt of the two getting to know each other feels a little cursory. I get the sense that Zenzile doesn't like humans and is... acting very rude about it, which is a little ironic given her berserker button being related to bigotry. We were just getting into the interesting parts of the conversation about Frederick not knowing where South Africa is, and then the console BEEPs! I know that's typical of HQ, but I feel like... in order to get a better sense of the two's impending dynamic, I would've liked to see more of that conversation, and with a little more showing, not telling. It might also be helpful to pick one agent's POV and stick to it, since you dive between both of their thoughts sometimes. Then, for example, we can really experience what it's like to be in HQ from the perspective of a gryphon... human-sized doors, door handles not accommodating of talons... idk, go nuts!
I did like the sardonic observations made by Zenzile about HQ, those are pretty classic HQ. The coleslaw line was funny, too. I don't want to outright say granted or denied since this is purely my observations based on your writing and not your activity or demonstrated knowledge of the PPC, so... take some time and maybe give us a little bit more of the control prompt scene. Give us a meatier introduction to your agents and their dynamic, and we can go from there.
Thanks for the feedback, by the way. I never realized how potentially… weird my writing could be in regards to touchy real-life subjects. I'll try to avoid stepping on any toes.
The Eagleverse is an original continuum wherein multiple Earth countries made the jump to space and became feuding empires, but I'll make sure to keep references to the politics of the 'verse to a minimum. The PPC is, after all, meant to be parody, not satire.
I intentionally chose obscure continua for my agents so I could play others' lack of knowledge about them for laughs.
I'm thinking about whether to expand the original prompt or write a second one, where the two agents have smoothed over the roughest parts in their dynamic and are more at ease with one another. I'm leaning towards the latter. When I'm done, I'll update the document.
I'll see if I can find an older fic to spork, too.
Again, thanks for the feedback. This has all been a huge help for me as a writer, especially since I usually don't get detailed feedback like this.
Different people react to bigotry in different ways. If Zenzile has always been viewed as a dangerous beast, going "heck it, I'll give them a dangerous beast" and "I better be the Most Polite Gryphon Ever so they don't think I am one of the Bad Ones" are both responses that she could have. What's important is knowing where she is starting in her arc and where you want to take her, like Nesh pointed out.
I'll make sure to keep references to the politics of the 'verse to a minimum. The PPC is, after all, meant to be parody, not satire.
No, no, you don't have to keep it minimised unless you want to! Where your character comes from informs a lot of how they react to things in HQ, and it would do Frederick a huge disservice if he's not allowed to bring his home culture with him. If you're worried about treading on real world political toes, I would suggest you change the names of the futuristic countries instead. Space England versus Space France has a different vibe from Crumpington versus Baguerette. And there's a thin line between parody and satire anyway; one could argue a mission does a little bit of both.
I intentionally chose obscure continua for my agents so I could play others' lack of knowledge about them for laughs.
A couple months ago, Nesh wrote a pretty good thinkpiece about comedy, and, to quote her: "a joke must be based on something both the comedian and the audience agree is true". There's nothing wrong with choosing to bring in characters from obscure continua! But you'll find yourself having to explain the joke more often than not. The rest of us might have the basics of Gryphons (from other fantasy settings) and genetic engineering creating new races that are then oppressed (from... idk, the X-Men, the Incredibles, or other sci-fi). You as the comedian can subvert our expectations based on that knowledge! But that being said, there's a difference between, say, "Gryphons view Sam Eagle as an offensive caricature. Cue Zenzile tearing down Sam Eagle posters in the Small Auditorium", and "Oh, you didn't know Gryphons from The Gryphon Generation have laser eyes? What fools you are!" (Idk if they do. I'm spitballing.)
I'm thinking about whether to expand the original prompt or write a second one, where the two agents have smoothed over the roughest parts in their dynamic and are more at ease with one another. I'm leaning towards the latter. When I'm done, I'll update the document.
I would personally prefer that you expand the original prompt. I would rather see the rougher part of their dynamic because that's where the interesting stuff is. I want to see Zenzile and Frederick's initial prickliness as well as their smoother dynamic later on, but the prickliness is more important to me because it gives the smoother dynamic more payoff.
There's nothing wrong with diving headfirst into a conflict and showing us the gory parts of these two learning to get along. Suvians are notorious for setting up conflict and then skirting by it with speshul powers--just look at Breaking Dawn's anticlimactic final battle. As long as you don't get too lost in the drama or too grimdark, a little more of these two getting to know each other via antagonistic bicker-fest would really hit the spot. Especially if it bleeds into their first mission and causes them to realise they have to put their differences aside to work together!
Again, I think you've got solid writing chops! I think you might be playing it a little safe based off of your answers, so I recommend you have fun and go nuts and give the two the messy first meeting they're clearly set up to have. It will make the smoother dynamic later on feel much more rewarding.
I'll think about how I can expand/rewrite the original prompt in a way that really shows off the prickly character interactions, then. I enjoy reading about character conflict in stories, so I'll be giving it a lot of thought. This is good! I like thinking about how I can improve my writing.
And thanks for the tip on humor, I'll definitely check it out. For me, humor is one of those concepts where I understand the execution but find the ideas difficult to grasp. My humor is mostly, "Well, I find it funny, so maybe other people will find it funny, too," although I do understand that humor can be quite subjective.
On a sort-of related note, I found a possible fic I could spork. It was first published in 2017 and last updated in 2019, so I'm not sure if it fits the five-year guideline, but it is bad. There is rampant plagiarization of canon, but with an OC shoved into the story who, surprise surprise, is a canon's twin sister, but runty and trajeck. The Sue steals her sister's lines and interactions with other canons, pulls the canons around her OOC (Carnelian's the most blatant example, but there's also Winter-bashing and Qibli acting less suspicious than his canonical self), and has a contradictory "personality" where she's standing up to an angry dragon one moment and crying the next; in a given moment she basically does whatever's most convenient or most trajeck for her. Oh, and there's bad grammar (even in the plagiarized bits) and obtrusive in-text author's notes, the most obnoxious of which was the one that said the author changed Qibli's eye color because they liked it better that way. And I've only read the first ten chapters so far, but I do want to get through the whole thing before I start sporking it.
Edit: Whoops, forgot the link. The badfic can be found here.
Just... ow. That could definitely be made into a good mission joke. The weird "x-reader" first person was confusing too.
I'unno if it's quite old enough. I've only sporked a few fics, but the ones I have are from 2006-2012-ish, I think. It's probably fine?
-Ls' Random-ish Thoughts
Most of the fic from what I've seen is, word for word, exactly the same as Moon Rising, besides weird typographical errors like two characters speaking in the same paragraph and such, as well as adjustments made to accomodate the Sue and the occasional added lines or paragraphs to facilitate wangst, romance, etc.
As for whether it's old enough, I want to wait for Neshomeh's input, since she brought up fic age in the first place. Wings of Fire is a more modern series (the first book was published in 2012; the most recent book in the series came out last year), so finding an older badfic could be tricky, but it isn't impossible.
I could also spork a fic from a different fandom, but I'd prefer sporking a Wings of Fire fic for my first mission, since I know both the canon and the fandom like the back of my hand. A badfic from a different canon is an option, though.
I mostly spork badfics in video game fandoms. Same problem here.
Yeah, I think plagiarism would be a huge charge. I think even one of the comments noted it.
-Ls
If 90% of the fic is copy-pasted from canon, is the other 10% enough to build a mission around?
I mean, the changes you've described sound pretty bad, so the answer might be yes! It's just one of those things that requires thinking about before you dive in. There are only so many times you can write "the agents skipped another X hours/days/weeks of pure canon" before it gets tired, so how do you plan to work around it? Maybe they don't skip everything—maybe they take the opportunity to go sight-seeing. Maybe they spend the whole time bickering. Maybe they do something else I haven't thought of. A mission might work. But think about it before deciding. {= )
As for the age of the fic, no updates for four years is still pretty solid. Given that it's a young fandom, just do your best.
~Neshomeh
You'll be better able to help people with Permission requests if you pay attention to what feedback the PGs give.
And, general note to everyone, it's very helpful to have a non-PG beta a Permission request, so that a PG isn't taken out of the request-answering pool. {= )
I think I've said before, and will say again: I'm happy to offer guidance to anyone who wants to be a beta but isn't sure how. Feel free to ask me for advice!
~Neshomeh
Any advice you have?
--Ls always responds to beta requests, unless it's a mission to an explicit fic.
"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." So always look up anything unfamiliar, even if it sounds like the most obviously silly nonsense you've ever heard of. There's always a chance you're behind the times or just plain ignorant. Trust me, I've been plenty guilty of this in my time. {= )
This especially applies when beta'ing for someone from another country. English comes in many and varied forms, so what looks wrong to an American may be correct for a Brit or Aussie. Not just for spelling; idioms are many-splendored things, and different life experiences make for different perceptions of what's normal/usual.
On a related note, you should always have an objective reason for making a correction, and be able to explain it clearly and kindly. You may make style suggestions, but ultimately it's the writer's story, not yours, and they're allowed to disagree with you in matters of taste.
Know that your goal is to help the author realize their vision (not yours) in the best possible way. To do that, you have to understand the vision. When you're not sure you understand something, ask (don't assume) what the author intended. Clear and considerate communication in both directions makes for the best outcomes.
Basically, keep an open mind. You might think you know where a joke, arc, or story is going, but... you could always be wrong. {= )
And that's okay! Everyone makes mistakes. Accept it humbly, learn from the experience, and move on. That's how you get better.
I hope that was helpful, but if not, ask a more specific question next time. {= P
~Neshomeh
(Edit: Got Zenzile's name wrong, sorry!)
Re. Zenzile and bigotry, it looks like gryphons, as a brand-new species, have been subject to oppression by humans. This summary right here tells me there's a blatant parallel to American anti-Black racism in the first book. That being the case, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable for Zenzile to have some prejudice against humans.
That's not to say it shouldn't be a point of growth for her, though, since not all humans are the same. Especially when they come from different universes. {= )
I do question the choice of badfic, though. First of all, it looks like it may be in active publication. My advice is to pick something inactive that's at least five years old. That way you avoid stepping on a person's rawest feelings if they happen to get wind of the mission. (Which they shouldn't. But still.)
Anyway, on the quality of the fic—with the caveat that I don't know the Wings of Fire continuum—a quick skim through the extant four chapters (they are chapters, even though they were posted as separate stories), doesn't have me reaching for the Bleeprin. The writing IS cringey at times (the prologue is particularly urple {X D ), and there's some really obnoxious fourth-wall-breaking in the fourth chapter, but it strikes me as mostly mediocre, fluffy, and boring. It takes some effort to pull humor from that.
And the protagonist IS special, but he's special by design, and I kinda like how that's explored with his feelings of restlessness and having a close relationship with (I think) a canon character who also has an unusual backstory. (I don't think it's actually a slash relationship as part three's category says, though? They are children.)
I even think the inner-space exploration was done reasonably well, with attention paid to changes in gravity and atmospheric density, and the need for a different sort of propulsion than wings.
Plus, well, he's a child. Yes, he's touted for being oh so mature for his age, but he's still just a year old in part four. I am on record as personally having qualms about agents happily slaying children-shaped things. ^_^;
None of this is to say this fic can't be PPC'd at some point, especially if there's bad OOCness I can't detect, but I suspect there are easier targets out there for a first mission. And ones that are not potential live powder kegs. {= )
~Neshomeh