So yeah, like I said, I am saddened to see your agents and missions removed from continuity. Not just because I liked them, but also because I prefer to see everything archived for future readers. Seeing something be lost from the internet forever is sad to me. That said, these are, of course, your ideas, and you can do with them what you will.

I find that even if I had some writing online that I was embarrassed of and wanted to not be associated with, I would prefer to move them somewhere else that isn't with my main writing, probably with a disclaimer that it isn't representative of my current work. Unless there's some gross moral issues with the work, I just don't think full removal is necessary.

I don't think it's hypocritical to necessarily point out the flaws of bad writing while having issues yourself; no one is perfect. I do think that is what beta'ing is for; helping you catch issues you can't see on your own. I don't think a PPC mission has to be perfect; the goal is simply to be better than the work being critiqued, and up to the community standards. Everyone makes typos, and I don't think anyone is ever perfect. You shouldn't need to hold yourself up to such unrealistic standards.

Sometimes people do waste time and energy on something that is, objectively, bad. But if no one points that out, how are they supposed to grow as an author? I think that in order to better your ability to write, you have to be able to take criticism and realize when you've made something bad. If someone has some awful first knitting project, you shouldn't loudly yell at how loud it is, yes, but I also don't think you should lie to them and say that it is good when it isn't. Like Geema, I can appreciate the work put into something bad, even if it has a bad end result. But being able to kindly and constructively critique something is, in my view, the best and most appropriate way to respond to something like that.

Yes, there absolutely is a way to give feedback to an author better, but I don't think a PPC mission is that way. Trying to give constructive criticism in a kind, reasonable way that makes clear exactly what does or doesn't work is a delicate balance that usually doesn't work in an MST or PPC mission, where the intent is more to entertain one's own friends and audience. A PPC-style critique might indeed stop someone from writing; which is why we don't solicit badficcers to read our missions. The PPC is a pretty private corner of the Internet with its own rules, and (nowadays at least) we absolutely don't and shouldn't try to take it outside of that. I think choosing to tailor your critiques to your audience is indeed a good thing.

Insofar as "don't like, don't read" applies to fics, I think it replies to reviews as well. Don't want to hear what someone's take on your fic is? Ignore it. Don't respond, don't think about it, block it if you have to. There is absolutely such a thing as bad reviews, and I think that they are best ignored. Did someone leave a low-star review with no elaboration? Did someone share some arbitrary standard they hold fics to? You can just ignore them and block it.

Anything posted publically should be allowed to be criticized. I don't think unsolicited critical feedback is something that should be discouraged. At the end of the day, is some dumb fanfic that totally ruins LoTR's worldbuilding with a plethora of typos the worst thing ever? No. But neither is a "bad" review or criticism, and I have the right to point out its flaws in a humorous way if I want to.

Maybe there are some people who aren't equipped to share their work publically because of insecurities or whatnot. I would tell such people that they should probably stick to sharing their work with friends.

TL;DR: Anything posted publically, be it work or review, should be allowed to be talked about or ignored. If you don't want anyone's perspectives on something, don't put it where anyone can see it. If you don't like something, you can just ignore it.

TL;DR of the TL;DR: I agree with Nesh.

--Ls

Before I start, you're free to do what you choose with your own work. Like Linstar, I don't like it, but I won't fight you. I just need to put in my two cents about why I disagree for anyone else reading.

Everyone is a beginning writer at some point. Even good writers have bad ideas sometimes, and write them, and post them. Part of my dealing with my PPC involvement is owning this: owning that not everything I do is great, and that anyone has just as much right to notice and make fun of it as I do. Because it's okay to not be great all the time. I truly believe that sentiment should be normalized, because that would take so much of the sting out of criticism; it would take away the fear so many people have of trying something new, or of continuing after a shoddy effort. It's okay not to be perfect. It's okay to look back, shake your head at how cringe you were, and then happily go about doing better. Because just look how far you've come!

I have never taken down an old work, and never intend to, and that's why. I feel no shame at having been less good then than I was now, or in growing and gaining a new perspective on life. Having been a worse writer in the past isn't a sin to be buried and atoned for. It's just part of my journey to becoming a better writer.

I was also aware that FF.n (and AO3) have a review system when I posted there, and that anyone could use it to say whatever they wanted. I wasn't posting in a private community with rules about positivity, so I never expected it. While safe spaces are certainly valuable, I think non-safe spaces are, too. If you're never exposed to negative feedback, how on Earth are you ever supposed to learn to cope with it? If no one tells you what hasn't worked, how will you know to try something different?

Granted, I would not speak to a young child the same way I would speak to a teenager or an adult, but if you join FF.n or (I think) AO3, you're stating that you're at least 13 and can be spoken to as such. I would also never speak to someone "in person" as though I were writing a mission. Different circumstances, different rules. I don't think that's hypocritical. It is, in fact, a good thing to exercise situational awareness and adjust your behavior appropriately.

But I think it's also really valuable for beginners to see that other people were beginners once, too, so that not everything out there available for comparison is a polished, mature work. And that's okay. It's okay to see what went wrong for other people, laugh about it if it was funny, and learn from it how to do better. You don't have to be an expert to have the right to an opinion. Anyone is allowed! And that's a good thing!

That's my view. Possibly an increasingly unpopular one, but there it is. I hope it helps someone.

~Neshomeh

So, as an admin, would you just like me to go through and add the out-of-continuity category and template from your agents' pages? It might take some more work to remove any related stuff from other wiki pages, but I can do so.

--Ls

I want to start out that I don't mean for this to turn into another conversation about whether the PPC deserves to exist or whatever. That conversation has been had plenty of times and it just seems to end with everyone's feelings being hurt. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here. I just want to add what I already said to Oculus in the Discord because it was an interesting conversation and I'd like to maybe get some more thoughts on it.

When I was a kid, my school had a whole assembly about using the Internet. The whole presentation was pretty funny in retrospect, but the point is that I really had it drilled into me that when you post something online, there's no sure way to take it back. People can read it, save it, repost it, whatever they want, and there is not much you can do about it. So, if you're going to post something, it doesn't matter if it's a family photo or a one-sentence forum post: you should be prepared for anyone and everyone, for the rest of time, to see that message and associate it with you.

That position was a bit extreme. The Internet has changed, the ways people use it have changed, and nobody is going to care that the person who liked that one DeviantArt OC ten years ago was me. But that's still my first thought when I sit down to say or write something that might go online: is this something I'm okay with literally everyone seeing? For my writing, the answer is almost always "no." And that's still an important part of how I look at other people's work online. I assume that someone hit the publish button knowing full well that mean strangers would find the thing, and that they were ready for the inevitable trolls.

However, there's a flip side to that. I have to admire the confidence of anyone who publishes a fic, no matter how bad, especially when there's a second or third chapter. Even bad writing takes time and effort, so a badfic takes both of those plus the confidence to publish. No fanfic author gets paid for their work (well, unless they're breaking the terms of service), and that's also worth considering. I can get mad at a bad book for costing me money to read, money that makes me feel almost obligated to read the book; I can't say the same about fanfiction because fanfiction is free now. I can click away any time I want with no loss.

"Don't like, don't read" is a cliché that can read as "No criticism allowed," but there is some truth to that. If a fanfic is so bad that I don't even want to spend the time to write a proper review, then what am I doing? Why am I reading it? I can look at something, anything else at any time I want. When I keep reading something hilariously bad, it's because I enjoy it. When I make fun of that thing to my friends, it's because the author has made it clear in some way that they do not care about legitimate feedback. And if the fanfiction is any better than that, then I point out the parts that I actually like.