Subject: Good idea. I did that. (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2014-01-10 20:14:00 UTC
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Guys, guys, opinions required. by
on 2014-01-06 05:38:00 UTC
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Can Tenth Walker be done well?
The Emperor Protects! -
Re: Guys, guys, opinions required. by
on 2014-01-11 20:02:00 UTC
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Yes it can. If a Tenth Walker isnt a Mary Sue, actually contrubutes something outside of romantic involement, and adds some interesting elements to the story, then congats! You have created a good Tenth Walker!
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The Tenth Walker wiki page by
on 2014-01-09 09:10:00 UTC
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I think that this thread is seriously awesome and filled with great advice for anyone who would want to do a Tenth Walker. Would anyone mind terribly, if I took it upon myself to compile all the thoughts and advice (giving proper credit, of course) into a 'Tenth Walker in goodfic' section on the Tenth Walker wiki page?
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And done by
on 2014-01-10 18:37:00 UTC
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The references were a bit of a killer. I tried to credit everyone who first mentioned an idea, but I only linked to each post once. And if anyone has any idea what to call the links other than 'The Posting Board' I'll be happy to change them.
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That sounds great. by
on 2014-01-11 04:48:00 UTC
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Neshomeh's idea seems pretty good.
My glod, I've only been gone for a little less than a week and I've missed so much stuff!
~Autumn -
You can title them after the post subject line. by
on 2014-01-10 19:35:00 UTC
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Adding the name of the author is also a good idea. So, for instance, if you wanted to cite this post it would go:
* "You can title them after the post subject line" by Neshomeh
Looks a bit odd, especially next to story titles, but it works.
~Neshomeh, who has done this on other articles occasionally. -
Good idea. I did that. (nm) by
on 2014-01-10 20:14:00 UTC
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Maybe put the name of the Boarder in the link? (nm) by
on 2014-01-10 19:14:00 UTC
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Sounds brilliant. (nm) by
on 2014-01-09 16:37:00 UTC
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Please do! (nm) by
on 2014-01-09 15:07:00 UTC
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Sounds good to me. (nm) by
on 2014-01-09 09:49:00 UTC
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Most definitely. People can't think that 10th Walker=Sue. (nm) by
on 2014-01-09 09:45:00 UTC
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I think I've found the 10W that can't be well done. by
on 2014-01-08 10:02:00 UTC
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It's run kind of into the ground, but... by
on 2014-01-09 05:52:00 UTC
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How can you do "random person falls into Middle-earth" well without just doing "Don't Panic" again?
(Really? Fifth Hobbits are common? I thought most 10Ws were bamf-fics, shows what I know...) -
The way I see it, you've got two options. by
on 2014-01-09 13:22:00 UTC
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Also, the explosion from firearms are scary. by
on 2014-01-09 21:08:00 UTC
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And despite the technology required to manucfacture both guns and gunpowder, it is easier and quicker to train recruits with than bows or crossbows. Sauron was a student of Aule, he would be able to mass-produce firearms and gonpowder quickly.
Imagine a horde of Orc armies about to be charged by Rohirrim. But instead of bows, the orcs used firearms instead. There would be no need for Nazghul there, Gondor would lose hope faster than Niniel knowing who her brother was. -
Therein lies the rub... by
on 2014-01-10 00:15:00 UTC
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Would you trust a matchlock arquebus built and maintained by Orcs? These are the minions of Sauron we're talking about here. I would not trust them with anything more complicated than a frelling spoon.
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Orcs are evil. But also quite smart. by
on 2014-01-10 03:20:00 UTC
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They are capable of machinery, such as crossbows, siege engines, and others. In fact, Tolkien envisions that we learn mechanical engineering from the Orcs. I'm sure the Orcs could manage a few foundries and gunpowder factories. Provided they don't fight over each other too often.
Or some engineers from Khand and Harad could do the gunmaking, while Orcs just shoot and maintain. Early firearms IRL do fail often, and sometimes explosively. If anything else, Orcs are expendable. -
That's exactly my point. by
on 2014-01-10 09:26:00 UTC
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Early firearms do blow up if they aren't maintained properly - and I would not trust an Orc, no matter how smart, to maintain them in the correct manner. This is at least in part because you need good quality metal for gun barrels, and orcish smithies produce a lot of cheap metal... with the structural integrity of a wet paper towel. This was sort of Tolkien's point regarding them; that mass-production was never going to be as fit for purpose as small-batch craftsmanship, thus serving the greater point that the modern world was fundamentally inferior to the Britain that had gone before.
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I'm not sure it was. by
on 2014-01-10 10:04:00 UTC
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Very well reasoned. by
on 2014-01-10 14:46:00 UTC
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One idea by
on 2014-01-08 18:01:00 UTC
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Well, you sort of can. by
on 2014-01-08 18:18:00 UTC
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In similar vein... by
on 2014-01-08 22:56:00 UTC
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A thought. by
on 2014-01-08 15:22:00 UTC
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Building a Fellowship by
on 2014-01-08 18:38:00 UTC
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I know what this thread needs. by
on 2014-01-10 15:26:00 UTC
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Moria: It is pitch dark. You may be pwned by a Balrog. (nm) by
on 2014-01-10 16:36:00 UTC
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And the award for in-joke of the week goes to... (nm) by
on 2014-01-12 08:44:00 UTC
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... I think I need to break out the Javascript. (nm) by
on 2014-01-10 16:40:00 UTC
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An expansion on my above Fellowship by
on 2014-01-09 19:18:00 UTC
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I think you're right. by
on 2014-01-10 09:41:00 UTC
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Wow... by
on 2014-01-10 16:16:00 UTC
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And presenting: the Fellowship of the Silly. by
on 2014-01-09 14:03:00 UTC
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An even alternater Fellowship. by
on 2014-01-09 12:12:00 UTC
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DRAT. DON'T MAKE ME WANT TO WRITE THIS. by
on 2014-01-31 16:53:00 UTC
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I've already shelved a Dark!Bilbo fic where Frodo and Co. set out to discover the truth of what happened after Bilbo remained at Erebor as Thorin's advisor and the Ring makes him go grimdark crazy. You've got me wanting to write about Easterlings and the three ladies of this Fellowship kicking ass and taking names and braiding the guys' hair on slow days.
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...someone please write Tauriel as a Walker... by
on 2014-01-08 16:50:00 UTC
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Isn't she enough of a Sue already? :P (nm) by
on 2014-01-09 05:54:00 UTC
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Problem is... by
on 2014-01-08 18:08:00 UTC
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... I'm personally convinced that she's going to die alongside Kili in the next film. So you'd be making two changes, and...
... and I don't care. :P Make the Rider Eomer (because he and Faramir are known to get on later - I can see him, in his position as Third Marshall, taking it upon himself to join Faramir on the way to Rivendell), and make the story happen.
hS -
Looking at Rohan. by
on 2014-01-08 15:47:00 UTC
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Another question without answers. by
on 2014-01-07 04:31:00 UTC
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Can 'Girl Falls into Middle-Earth' be done well?
The Emperor Protects! -
Now this I would like to see. by
on 2014-01-08 00:15:00 UTC
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From what you've said... by
on 2014-01-08 08:51:00 UTC
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I think this is how the Dagor Dagorath starts.
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Of course. by
on 2014-01-07 05:24:00 UTC
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To repeat what Phobos said, we like to think that anything can be done well provided there's some skill and effort behind it.
Also, there's a Legendary Goodfic that was written precisely to prove this point: "Don't Panic!" by former Boarder boz4pm.
~Neshomeh -
Putting my money where my mouth is. by
on 2014-01-06 09:53:00 UTC
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An interesting idea... by
on 2014-01-06 15:00:00 UTC
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Feel free to use mine from the bottom of the thread, if you want.
-Phobos -
Hm... by
on 2014-01-06 14:03:00 UTC
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Depends on the story. by
on 2014-01-06 14:43:00 UTC
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Fair enough, I just realised you'd already answered that. by
on 2014-01-06 15:09:00 UTC
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Oops. :P And yeah, fair enough on the generic thing, you established what you meant to establish well enough - I was just commenting on how, as it was thus far, I really didn't have anything I could usefully review. Also, a pox on the movieverse! :P
Hm, what else... how would you handle a tenth Nazgul? Treat Sauron as the tenth as Phobos was saying, something else? And all the members of the Fellowship were relevant in some way - how would you have the OC member contribute usefully to the plot/play an important role without upstaging the canon walkers or making up too much stuff wholecloth? -
But now you made me write more. by
on 2014-01-06 15:22:00 UTC
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Sorry, DoS left me feeling poxy. by
on 2014-01-06 15:44:00 UTC
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Eärnur by
on 2014-01-06 16:11:00 UTC
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I've always wondered... by
on 2014-01-06 13:41:00 UTC
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What if one of the other civilisations of Middle-Earth was present at the Council? Perhaps one of the tribes of Harad was less amenable to the will of Sauron than they let on? Okay, how they'd get to the Council obviously needs work, but I'm fascinated by the cultures of Harad and Rhun.
Especially since they were never characterised beyond wall-to-wall evil in the books...
--parp -
My sediments exactly. (nm) by
on 2014-01-07 01:01:00 UTC
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Your matter that settles to the bottom of liquid? (nm) by
on 2014-01-07 03:06:00 UTC
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Ach, no. My opinions would be a better choice of words. (nm) by
on 2014-01-07 03:31:00 UTC
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No complaints whatsoever. (nm) by
on 2014-01-06 11:23:00 UTC
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Not bad. by
on 2014-01-06 10:18:00 UTC
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But can the idea hold up the entire quest?
Probably.
The Emperor Protects! -
I don't think so. My two cents. by
on 2014-01-06 08:09:00 UTC
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Merry and Pippin are already extra enough. Though they end up pushing the plot in other ways, it is not made obvious during the Council. They are more like 'fodder' to the Fellowship, only to fill the same number of people as the Ring-Wraiths.
But Tenth Walker would be possible if they have their own purpose after the Breaking of the Fellowship, such as dealing with a village raided by Orcs, or raiding Orc patrols, a la Turin Turambar, or even a chance meeting with Radagast, making sure he sends messages to the rest of the Fellowship or to ask Eagles for help. -
That's not fair to Gandalf. by
on 2014-01-06 09:15:00 UTC
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My take on the tenth Walker. by
on 2014-01-06 11:20:00 UTC
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My version of the same. by
on 2014-01-06 14:31:00 UTC
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My own (likely atrocious) attempt... by
on 2014-01-07 18:21:00 UTC
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That's actually pretty good. by
on 2014-01-08 09:29:00 UTC
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Additionally, you can use Amro in your TW fic thing. (nm) (nm) by
on 2014-01-08 12:05:00 UTC
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Thank you for the pointers. =] by
on 2014-01-08 11:55:00 UTC
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I used Mithrandir because Amro's in league with Morinehtar and would therefore probably be more familiar with that name for him, and totally not because I forgot that Inkanus was a thing. Totally. Uh-huh. *sweatdrop*
Your point about Lorien is also useful. My knowledge of Middle-Earth's geography is sorely lacking, and every little helps. =]
--parp -
Ooh, I like this. by
on 2014-01-07 18:52:00 UTC
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Well, that there's the $64000 question. by
on 2014-01-08 08:48:00 UTC
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I'd say yes. It's an OC coming into the Fellowship who would never have been at the Council of Elrond in any sane world, that's practically the definition of a Tenth Walker fic. On the other hand, that's generally the definition we use for bad Tenth Walker fics, so... Iunno. Anyone got a coin we can flip?
Also, Nesh, you're more than welcome to use Amro's scene in your Tenth Walker fic collection. =]
--parp. -
A child orc? Even more trouble. by
on 2014-01-06 19:58:00 UTC
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But it opens a new insight into Orcs. Do they care enough of their kindred's children not to harm them in battles? Are they fair game as well? And what will Sauron do to them?
Also, I'm a bit frustrated for Tolkien not expanding Black Speech. Luckily, we know that each tribe of Orcs have their own tongue, so we could make up one for one tribe. And another for another tribe. And so on...? -
Nice. by
on 2014-01-06 15:54:00 UTC
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I at least would be interested in the continuing adventures of Snaga the orc Walker, dunno if I speak for anyone else but I'm tickled by how much that shakes things up. :P
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Depends on the 'verse. by
on 2014-01-06 07:46:00 UTC
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That actually ties into two plotbunnies I have. by
on 2014-01-08 16:31:00 UTC
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Opinion granted by
on 2014-01-06 05:55:00 UTC
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I would venture to say that anything can be done well, if there is some skill behind it. Tenth walker is no different. I don't even think it would be difficult to do it well for this particular thing.
-Phobos -
Why's that? (nm) by
on 2014-01-06 06:36:00 UTC
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Which bit? I will gladly explain. (nm) by
on 2014-01-06 13:27:00 UTC
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Why you think it's easy to do well, sorry. (nm) by
on 2014-01-06 13:30:00 UTC
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Well... by
on 2014-01-06 14:41:00 UTC
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A small problem with number 2. by
on 2014-01-06 20:03:00 UTC
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I remembered that Gandal are not to contend dirently with Sauron in battle. Somehow the breaking of this rule is a spoiler in Desolation of Smaug.
I think Gandalf will not have himself being the leader of the Fellowship and counterpoint to Sauron. Not to mention Frodo, the Ringbearer, is the spearhead of the mission. He is the only one who had to enter Sammath Naur and chuck the ring into the fire. If anything, Frodo will, figuratively at least, lead. -
I don't see a problem by
on 2014-01-06 21:41:00 UTC
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Ah, I see now. (nm) by
on 2014-01-06 22:59:00 UTC
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