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So I understand what this person is getting at here? The thing is, Sprinkles has told me that A) Said person had reassured them multiple times that they were okay with it, and B) The blockage came with no warning. My own personal take on it is that this would have been way better had Sprinkles been spoken with by said person before it escalated into said person needing to cut contact with them. As it is, this has dealt Sprinkles a blow I'm afraid he may not recover from. Said person may do as they wish; I (Quincy) just want them to know the impacts their decisions are having on the people they affect.

Here's the problem: nobody here's psychic. So we have to go by what people tell us. Sprinkles couldn't know about the other person's issues. Or that they felt uncomfortable.

This isn't necessarily their fault. Maybe they should have spoken up. Maybe Sprinkles should have been more perceptive.

This is a complicated failure state in a relationship, and I can't fix it.

The only thing I can do is to tell everyone: If you are feeling upset, or uncomfortable, or bothered, do not lie and say it's fine, speak up early, speak up often.

If you've been abused, or hurt, I don't think that will fix anything. But maybe hearing this will help you find your voice. Because as someone who did speak up, I can tell you: it gets better.

I don't know if it helps, but I live in hope.
-Thoth

I would be willing to stand behind you on this, but I feel like you are working against yourself. We cant support this person if we don't know who they are, and it sort of just helps this supposed 'abuser' thing along. I just can't get behind your argument as it stands. I know that this person's pain is importent, but since it is an anonymous, faceless, figure at the moment... sorry.

I'm not going to insist that they do.

But what they did hurt someone (Sprinkles), seemingly about as much as Sprinkles hurt them. Whoever they are, I feel that is something they need to know, because it does matter, and it is important.

This isn't a case of one person hurting another. This is two people hurting each other, deeply and profoundly.

"Sprinkles is having a meltdown
In the main chat
Now imagine this every other day over PMs
[...] I'm done"

In short, I refuse to pressure them or support pressuring them. They've been pretty badly hurt by all this? Please stop trying to insist that they must do emotional work.

I... suspect that the person in question has been through a reasonable amount of abuse. And a few key tactics of abusers are to A, make sure that their victims know that any sort of resistance will only be met with more abuse, and B, that looking for any sort of outside help will also be met with more abuse.

To make it very clear: I do not believe Sprinkles is an abuser. I do not believe he is Bad, I do not believe he walked into this to hurt people- but people have been hurt nonetheless, and I'm concerned that it will happen again.

I intend to talk with the unnamed person about this once this round of drama is over? But none of this changes the pain that they experienced.

And this is also why I'm continuing to disagree with inviting Sprinkles back into the chat- from my conversation with him, I know he's carrying a lot of pain that he doesn't show all the time. And I know that he's accidentally let it loose and hurt someone deeply without realizing it. And I'm worried that there's nothing that's been discussed that can prevent that from happening again.

I'm not, for the record, making this the hill I'm going to die on. I want to make sure people have at least some insight into all the sides of the story. Sprinkles chose to leave, and has asked for permission to come back- if that's the consensus that is reached, I'll support it. But I want to make sure that that consensus is based on at least something like a full understanding.

The worst part? Is that the people at the heart of this are all in a lot of pain. I hate that, I hate that there isn't a cleaner solution, I hate that I didn't know enough to step in before it all boiled over. I feel like I've failed on this one.

Sprinkles has had someone he loves very much just completely abandon him without any explanation. Right now, he's absolutely... just... devastated, is the best way I have to describe it. He's wondering, right now, if all of those happy times were a lie... if all the times that person said they cared, said they loved him were just falsehoods. I don't understand this person's motivations for cutting him off, but... Please, if there's any way to offer any sort of explanation... anything would be better than this. He'd say this himself, but he's having trouble talking to me, let alone post publicly.

I'd say that talking out the issue would be the best thing. But I'm not involved, and I understand others disagree.

But does this need to impact the rest of the community to this extent? The question is, should Sprinkles be booted from the community (or at least the Discord portion) because of an issue with one member which, AFAICT, could have been resolved simply by asking him to stop?

I say no, personally. But I'm not the only person here.

Although I admit my perspective is limited, I would be willing to let him back into the Discord channel.

Firstly, the purely technical. He was not, at any point, actually kicked. He left of his own accord, and in this particular case, I don't feel the situation warrants a ban. While my memory is horribly faulty, I don't recall anything like a warning before the incident that would create reason for what would amount to a ban.

Secondly, since the event, he has been nothing but apologetic, to myself and to others. Given the mental circumstances around the incident, and things I've been told since then, I believe that a repeated occurrence would be unlikely. Therefore, I'd be willing to have him back.

As I'd noted, this has been going on for a while and from their perspective, this has been a really nasty few months- I don't think there is an easy resolution. At the very least, I expect that they will not contact Sprinkles for the forseeable future. (And we really shouldn't attempt to force them to, that's just a terrible idea.)

That link was inappropriate, and I appreciate being called out on it.

From what you all are saying, it seems like better communication between the individuals involved could easily solve the problem without kicking Sprinkles from the Discord. Luckily, this can happen! I implore the person noted here (whoever it is) to get in touch with Sprinkles, and try to explain their side of the story and re-establish good terms with him.

I think it's a sane thing to attempt, at least. What's the harm?

I'm not asking for detail. I'm not asking for a steaming pile of drama. Just for a quick, concise explanation of what he actually did to make you so mad, because once we know what we're dealing with, we can make a rational, informed decision.

It would be best to solve this quickly and cleanly. Then drama wouldn't be happening - mysteries make for back-stabbing.

No matter what the circumstances, in my mind? That just wasn't okay. On any level.

Having been over the past few weeks in communication with Sprinkles via PMs, I would have to agree. Had I, being in a similar situation, asked him to stop, I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have stopped. What I've seen of him so far is attuned to the wishes of other people, and tries his best not to bother us with his own issues. Following that statement, I would like to present Sprinkles' point of view on the matter: According to him, Delta's member of the community had told him multiple times that they were okay with his issues, and had generally worked to love and support him through his emotional trials. Following his recent outburst, they completely cut contact with him without offering an explanation, or (to my knowledge) having issued warnings to him about his behavior. My own interactions with him have made it abundantly clear that he is beyond devastated because of this.

Yeah, it's more than a bit much. It's a solidly extreme example, and I only linked it because Clif explains it better than I could with half-frozen fingers on a phone keyboard. I am sorry for the implications it raised.

But I do think that he seriously needs to get help with his issues, assuming he hasn't already. (He probably has, but... I don't know. Sprinkles?)

Okay, I can't make a judgement about this. I don't know anything. I don't know if the individual in question informed Sprinkles that what he was doing made them uncomfortable (that's important: there's a difference between not knowing that you're bothering someone, and knowing but doing it anyways). I don't even know what he did.

I understand that you cannot reasonably give us that information, but it does mean that I can't do much with what you gave me.

I have to judge Sprinkles on my observations of his behavior, and on what I know. And for the most part, he's been a very good member of the PPC community from what I have seen. I think he has some issues (Sprinkles, I assume you're reading this... Please, get some help if you haven't already. I don't know how capable you are of getting help, but if you can, you need to), but fundamentally, his heart is in the right place, and he's mostly a great guy.

If I knew what happened in PMs, that may change my opinion. I don't know. But a vague charge that he did something in PMs with no indication that there are not other options aside from booting him to mitigate this (like, say, talking to Sprinkles and sorting it out) doesn't change my position. Booting, even from chat, is a fairly extreme action.

Finally, there's something about Delta's post that really bugged me: It's the link to the Missing Stairs post. Delta, I feel that providing that post in the context you did severely overstates Sprinkles' issues. Not only that, but as posted, it seems to indirectly compare Sprinkles to a rapist. Sprinkles is by no means a perfect human being, but the issues we are discussing are not anywhere near that serious. That link makes it seem like you are implying that Sprinkles is Totally Broken, Evil, or both: neither is accurate, in my opinion.

I don't think that's what you meant to do by linking that post, but that is how it came across, to me at least.

I get that you're on phone and can't keep up otherwise. But still... I think this is a magnitude or more away from rape.

I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say here, but that's a bit much, don't you think? Sprinkles is a good friend of mine and a good person. I along with several other people heavily disapprove of comparing him to a freaking criminal.

I know who it is that was having this abuse flung at them. And e kept telling Sprinkles he was okay. There is no doubt in my mind that Sprinkles would have stopped if asked to - he's since offered several times with me.

I am writing this from my phone, so please excuse the brevity and inevitable typos- I will spend more time once I have my full keyboard again.

If it was just the New Year's Eve meltdown? I'd be right there with you. He posted in the middle of a meltdown, didn't even attack anyone in particular, and has apologized to at least Akrinor. I'd be cool with a "don't do that again," and probably some talk via pms on how to recognize when he shouldn't be posting.

But.

I've heard from a member of the community who offered to help Sprinkles that he has been throwing significant amounts of abuse at them in PM for multiple months, to the point that they've suffered a lot of distress. I've also heard corroboration from other people- I really trust what I've heard about Sprinkles's behavior.

I'm sorry I'm being vague- some of the people I am talking to are not comfortable being named in this conversation, and I'm trying to respect that. I'm also not sure how much their identities matter- Sprinkles has been taking out his issues on people in painful ways, and I'm not comfortable with that in my community.

At this point, I'd like to ((say something here that I've rightly been called out for. Removed it.))

To add to that- I do not intend to block him from contacting me. But, that does not mean I am comfortable having him in a space where he has already made people uncomfortable speaking up about how he is hurting them.

Sprinkles has been an amazing friend to me ever since I've known him. He's an amazing guy, both highly supportive and fun to talk to in general. He's expressed to me so many times how deeply sorry he is about his outburst, and I have absolutely no reason to believe that he had control over it in any regard. I also think it's highly unlikely for a meltdown on the gen chat to happen again. I honestly think it's unfair to shut him out for something that essentially wasn't him at all, and I for one would look forward to his return to the chat.

Fair enough.