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I would agree with that. The primary thing I think of when I use the term Mary Sue is canon warping. That goes for a fully manifested Sue or the Sue-Wraith that warps the canon characters without being visible.

The poor quality of plot, spelling, grammar, etc. does tend to go along with that, but not always, and I dislike extreme canon warping in all its forms (badly written or well written). Which is almost contradictory, because I will read and enjoy good AU's, of course good ones make a change and then keep characters in character while dealing with the circumstances of the change, so I guess that even applies to AU's.

The Sue/Sue-wraith can only be a character that warps canon, all other traits are just common symptoms, is just my view. It does preclude the existence of Sues in canon except in rare cases of late cast additions to long running series, because they can't warp canon if they are canon. There are a lot of different definitions.

Gah... just... GAH! That's NOT a mental I ever wanted to have! Thanks for slaying it, in more ways than one.

I've got a compact Canon, it's good for close range stuff, but if you want good photos at any range of any subject, splash out and get a big Nikon DSLR

Hello! Have a seventeen foot long, multicolored, wool, knit scarf (curly wig not included), and a bag of jelly babies.

Please use the IRresponsibly!

I liked your mission.

What an awful Sue.

I sent you a mission a while ago, but you never got back to me. Dud you get it?

...Or HQ the city in New Caldonia? Because I have no doubt that there's more than one bar in the city, but in the building itself...not so sure. Still, you have a point, and the size of either one of the two vary wildly in size between fics.

But you're probably right about the bartender. Oh, well.

Mostly because the writing itself doesn't change, only the fact that one of them is 'official' and one isn't. So the terminology for a character with one or all of the same traits in an official work being exempt from the terminology used in fan fiction writing doesn't seem appropriate.

The only way it would work, in my opinion, is if a Mary Sue was revised to only include a fan fiction OC's tendency to warp official canons, and not include the large range of traits that Mary Sues currently occupy.

This was a really funny mission to read, especially considering the fic they were targeting.

I like the Bleep experiments.

You know how we always claim (with what I suspect is varying degrees of sincerity) that any type of story can be goodfic, no matter if 99.9% of all stories of that type are badfic?

I actually have a rapefic to recommend as goodfic.

Sherlock Holmes.

Primarily movieverse-physical descriptions, primary thought patterns and behaviors, but a lot of extra details from the books to flesh out the movieverse

NSFW/NSFB (due to content not quality)

NC-17, best described as graphic and disturbing.

Quite possibly even more disturbing than normally encountered with badfic, because it is well written with in-character reactions. Definitely not for the faint of heart.

The story is incomplete at this time, but is being updated quickly and regularly. It is already around 60,000 words.

Here is the link. Mind the warnings. Distractions

Given the size of HQ, it'd actually be rather surprising if there was only one pub. It's supposed to be a massive building, more equivalent to a small country or at the least a big city (at least in my mind, given the sheer numbers of Agents said to work there), and I'm aware that in the past other eating and/or drinking establishments have been running.

(Besides, from what I've gathered from him, I'm fairly sure KGarrett already has the bartender character drawn up.)

Just my tuppence.

It wouldn't be realistic to have my Agents there (Leila doesn't drink and Julius mixes his own) but if you could make the bartender Haitian or Jamaican I would be very much obliged. I'm looking to do something similar, I already have a character drawn out, and it's rather unlikely that there'd be two pubs in HQ, yes?

I liked using the sparrow girl for the snitch. Poor Stormsong.

"The Rules Of Writing Are Not Arbitrary".

Just because "Sues are bad" doesn't mean automatically "All Sues must be killed". Sometimes they're fairly benign, staying in their own canons and affecting only their home worlds, and don't need to be dealt with. Would their worlds be better if they weren't Sues? Yes. But killing them would be a bad thing because they've inserted themselves into the canon to the degree that they're partly supporting it. It's sub-optimal, but it's an equilibrium that doesn't get worse.

...any more than the elements that make up a human being are the same thing as the human himself. We're a bunch of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, with a bit of nitrogen and calcium and other random elements thrown in... But go to your local lab and pick the elements out of their containers, shake them up, and you won't get a human; you'll probably just get a blob of random stuff (and quite possibly explosions). What makes a human isn't the elements in our bodies; it's the information that ties them together.

Sues are fictional characters. They're made of words. But in their case, they're not full characters; they're just a bunch of words thrown together without much coherence. They're little better than a blob of chemicals, with the same ingredients as a good character but very little of the information. Fictional characters, even more than human beings, are made of information. And for the Sue, that information is so cliched and mixed-up that nothing sentient could possibly result. Take the same words and put them together a different way; use good characterization; trim the extra Sue traits; and yeah, you could have a good character. But you don't have one now, any more than a blob of chemicals is the same thing as a human being.

http://chelonianmobile.deviantart.com/art/DARE-170668067

... at your own risk.

Let's see... you can definitely borrow this new pair of mine who showed up as guest stars for a plot point and now won't leave me alone.

There's Abeni (who is seventeen, female, and the laid-back, happy-go-lucky sort, and who probably just got some kind of normal World One cocktail, something with rum in it, most likely), and her partner Nikator, whom she'd say she dragged along to come have fun for once in his life, though he'd say he's keeping an eye on her.

If physical appearance is important, Abeni has short, slightly curly dark hair and very dark skin, and Nikator looks more or less like your average Romulan, although he hasn't kept his hair quite as neat as his fellows back in the Trekverse. He might be drinking Romulan Ale, or he might have got something entirely different out of curiosity.

Plain mead. It'll be a light honey colored non-carbonated beverage with a sweet taste.

You can use some of my agents, if you want. Danny would be sipping a gin and tonic and reading something (Wodehouse, perhaps, or maybe Hunter Thompson) in a quiet corner. Laura would not be there, however, as she doesn't drink. She might show up to tell Danny they've got a mission, but otherwise no.

Xericka and Gremlin would probably be drinking the strongest things they could get, what with the two squicky missions (one not yet published) they did back to back. After a few mixed drinks, Gremlin would slip into 'friendly inebriated bisexual lech' mode while Xericka would become easily amused and start using contractions in her speech.

I was embarrassed to.

As for the availability thing, way I picture things the owner's got drinks from all over the place; not necessarily just World One, either. Mostly real alcohol, but non-alcoholic beverages and PPC fare like Bleepka and Pink/Purple Stuff are available. Miah should be able to get something she'd like, within reason.

Have a Dalek statue.

I also restrict Sue to a certain type of fanfic character, and have never much liked the Canon Sue and Historical Sue terms, but like everyone else, I don't have a good easy replacement term. Without something easy and catchy to replace it with, the terms are stuck.