The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

Glad you found your way here. Have some popcorn to eat while you read the Original Series, conveniently linked at the top of the Board main page!

that the pile of "nature red in tooth and claw", aggressive self-interest, limited resources, violent tendencies, hate, and and so on that Melkor tossed onto orcs wasn't enough to de-people them completely, and that there's something there other than Always Chaotic Evil, because that's just not possible to do.

Sure, the PPC's got a bunch of work to do with orc recruits (if nothing else, there's some de-radicalization that needs doing to avoid excessive bar fights with elves), but there's still fundamentally someone there under the usual mook traits.

(Is this is a very Me interpretation of orcs? Heck yeah it is.)

- Tomash

Have two cents, so you can add them to discussions later. They even regenerate, so you can put them in as many times as you like!

As to how this works, that depends on what "this" is. In general, I'd suggest you hang out here (there's also a Discord), natter on about things, and poke fun at bad fanfic sometimes.

(If you want to write in the setting, you'll need Permission.)

Anyhow, what're your fandoms?

- Tomash

P.S. For a while now, the system of accounts on the Board hasn't worked, so don't bother logging in and just put your name in the "Author" field.

 So, I found out about this place from TV Tropes, and it seems interesting.  How does it work?

Drop the "Darling Friend Marion" bit? Comes across as a bit condescending.

I know you're all-but certainly upset, but it's a good idea to at least try and keep a level head. Don't let them drag you down to their level.

Oh, I've been there too, darling friend Marion, I've played sick myself, and I still one hundred percent think Bram's behavior is unacceptable. Especially because she claims to be acting in good faith.

I won't reiterate what Phobos, Thoth and the others have said about this conflict, but this isn't a middle-school revenge fantasy, darling friend Marion. If you think harassing people, insulting them, trying to get other people to attack them and repeatedly violating their community space is acceptable on any level because Evil Bullies Deserve Punishment, I dare say Bram isn't the only one who should move on here from past hurts. Darling friend Marion.

I was talking about being bullied at school. Believe me, if I could have punched them in their miserable faces without getting expelled, I would have. I had to play sick to get a break.

If you're saying that you personally have been bullied by the PPC since you've appeared on the Board, you're willfully mischaracterizing our interactions with you. If that is what you're saying, I ask you to point out one single instance of us bullying you.

A gross mischaracterization of our position.

Allow me to enlighten you.

Firstly, I don't think the majority of people here would just outright call Bram a "bad person". Some may—a good number of us have suffered a great deal at their hands—but we do understand that it's more complicated than that because this is not a storybook and we aren't children.

Well, some of us actually are children, or teenagers at least, but the point stands.

No. Our issue with Bramadin is not that they're a bad person. Our issues are as follows:

-Bram has continually proven themselves either unwilling or unable to uphold the standards of this community. These standards are not arbitrary, nor this this bullying: these are standards that every community member is held to. Including me. Including hS. Including Ix, including Neshomeh, including everyone else you have spoken to today.

-Bram has proven themselves willing to lie to get what they want. They have repeatedly circumvented bans, created fake identities, and otherwise behaved in a way that is not only unacceptable within the PPC, but unacceptable within any online community.

-Bram has proven that they are unwilling to accept the community's decisions and to stand by them—see above.

-Bram had repeatedly harassed and insulted PPC members.

-Despite many attempts, quite a few of which have had verbatim logs publically posted, logs that I have read, to listen to them, and to negotiate, Bram is unwilling to accept any sort of compromise that isn't "I get everything I want." Hence, your claim that "you would be done with her if you just listened" is blatantly, laughably wrong.

As to your claim that, according to Bram those efforts were misrepresented or that Phobos lied, or whatever else, the people who have tried to work something out with Bram are longstanding PPC members. They aren't beyond reproach, but they have time and again proven themselves to be honest, upstanding, and willing to act within the rules and standards of this community. Bram has not proven to be any of the above. In fact, through their actions, Bram has proven themselves to be deceitful, dishonest, and only willing to follow the rules when it suits them. As such, I do not trust Bram's word on this matter.

-The original incident that lead to Bram's initial banning is also irrelevant. Several PPC members have apologized for things that happened at that times (despite your assertion that we think we did nothing wrong). However, this incident is not why Bramadin was permanently banned. Bram was permanently banned because of the things that occurred after that incident, events that proved definitively that Bram was both unwilling and uninterested in following the rules and expectations of our community.

-Whatever mental health problems Bram may have, that does not excuse her behavior. Many PPCers also have mental health issues, and they are perfectly able to function within this community. And if it is true that Bram's condition makes functioning within this community impossible, then, quite simply, Bram cannot be a part of this community. The rules and standards that Bram repeatedly violated are what allow this community to function, and their violation is inexcusable: it literally cannot be excused. We wish Bram the best and hope they find the help they need to deal with the issues they have, but we are not psychiatrists, or any other sort of therapists. We are not the ones to give that help.

-Quite frankly, Bram has outworn any good will that they may have had, and given their continual flaunting of our rules, good will was all they were riding on. In my personal opinion, Bram has been given more chances than any who has so throughly violated the rules and expectations given to them deserve. It is a testament to the forgiving nature of the PPC that Bram was given so many chances. And the fact that Bram has very definitely run out of chances is proof that even the PPC's forgiveness has limits.

Once again, I must urge you to read the logs of the discussions with Bram that are https://ppc.fandom.com/wiki/User:Toopurple>on the wiki. Speaking as someone who was present for all of it, I can vouch for the fact that they are unaltered, unadulterated, and entirely accurate. You claim to have read them. Perhaps you have. However, if you have not, you should. Because it really does seem like you are not only unaware of our position, but also unaware of what Bram actually did and how bad it got.

As the person who first cited the PPC Constitution in this thread to argue that you shouldn't be summarily blocked, I find this post extremely ironic.

As the Constitution itself makes clear, its enforcement falls to everyone, not one specific person. To avoid my thoughts colouring things too much, I won't be saying anything else for or against you.

Given that I think I'm the only person who's supported you at all since you began discussing Zdimensia, you may want to consider what that means.

And just to make it crystal clear: this is not an apology, and your subsequent posts have continued to include multiple constitutional violations.

hS

I've been bullied too, but I wouldn't dream of going on a crusade like this, especially not for YEARS. Even if she was completely innocent in the original conflict, there is absolutely no excuse for how she's been handling the situation since. This level of refusing to let go is unhealthy - I pass no judgment on her personality, because I don't know her and so have no right to, but I can form an opinion about her behavior, and I don't much like what I see, my dear friend Marion.

And I think this needs to be reiterated - the PPC doesn't owe her any further interaction, and have expressed many, many, many, so many times that they're uncomfortable with her constant attempts at forcing herself back into this space. What she's doing now is harassment, plain and simple. And that is never acceptable. I'd tell Mother Theresa herself to knock it off if she was acting like this.

I didn't plan on get back into the ring with you, because you've dug your heels in already, but I couldn't just watch you flinging accusations and making personal attacks at a community I care about and not say anything. But now that we know each other's opinions, do kindly shut it because we're not getting anywhere - and I don't feel like playing chess with pigeons.

I have been bullied. Frankly I wish her all the luck because you would be done with her if you just listened.

You already know your own point of view, that you did nothing wrong and she's just a bad person.

Email's clickable.

I might not get around to it until this weekend.

- Tomash

Okay, so you're going to tell her that we're bullies... what, exactly, is that going to change? She already thinks so, and apparently so do you.
Also, you accuse hS of waving the Constitution around only when it suits him, after all he's done to somehow help resolve this conflict - but as far as I can see, you came here already biased against us, and now that you've started another round of the Bram Dance, refuse to even consider our position on the subject. Who, exactly, is making statements here that only support their point of view?
Also, you and Bram get along so well on this particular topic, one might even wonder if you're the same person. Food for thought.

Just be sure to also tell her that she is still not welcome in this community. Even if we were to overturn her original ban, like she wants, it wouldn't erase the fact that she has harassed us for the last half-decade and that, by her own admission on Reddit, she does it now to inflict suffering upon us.

She is never going to be allowed back in the community. We do not want to deal with her anymore, and we are not happy that she continues trying to force herself on us.

-Phobos

I've only responded to messages, and I am more than willing to take it up in email.

But if your going to wave around the constitution only when it suits you, I'll tell Bramandintook that you are bullies. She did want to discuss the mistrial of her original ban.

The distinction between author and character... Therein, I think, lies a key philosophical difference between us and other people.

I do not believe my characters are me. I give them some views that are similar to mine, but I also give them some views that differ from mine. Without knowing me, you can't know which is which. Maybe, if you studied my body of work in depth, you could make an educated guess about what I really think about some topics based on my stories alone, but maybe not.

I also do not believe a fanfic writer's Mary Sue is them. A Sue may have many things in common with their author, since some Sues are intended as idealized versions of their author, but without knowing the author, I can't know what is a true reflection of them and what isn't. That's a good thing for the author, because most Mary Sues are awful people when judged by their shown (not told) behavior, and I don't think that's the case of most fanfic writers. Not without some direct evidence from their own words.

That's why PPC missions don't direct their commentary at the author, but restrict it to the character(s): explicitly to avoid attacking a real person.

That's why we don't tell authors we're sporking their stories: explicitly to avoid attacking a real person.

And that brings us back to the point we've been trying to make from the start. If it is not yet clear that we don't ever intend to attack a real person, despite several people, our wiki, and our Constitution telling you as much, there's really nothing else to say.

~Neshomeh

As someone who got here recently and actually took the time to go back and study the history with fresh eyes, your perspective is extremely valuable. I personally appreciate it.

Additionally, as Marion continues to respond on this subject, her position becomes more clear. That information is also extremely valuable.

If we're going to allow new screennames the benefit of the doubt when it comes to insisting on repeating the exact same crud from zBram we've heard a dozen times before despite being asked not to, I'm afraid the occasional merry-go-round about her is something we'll have to tolerate, too. Maybe that's something we'll have to reevaluate as a community when we see how this shakes out, maybe not.

For now, I've got one more post to make in my discussion, for posterity, and then I'm out unless a vote is called for.

~Neshomeh

And I apologize for letting my mouth run away with me. I shouldn't have stepped in at all.

Marion: by posting on the PPC Board, you have agreed to abide by the PPC Constitution, linked at the top of the Board.

Personal attacks and harassment are in violation of the Constitution, per articles 6 and 4 respectively. Repeating Zdimensia's bad-faith characterisations of my interactions with her, and carrying on her campaign of haranguing the Board and demanding that people email her, constitute violations of those articles just as much as her doing them.

Additionally, by taking Zdimensia's words as unvarnished truth, and using them against people who have not said a word about the situation to you - including myself - you are in massive violation of Article 9's injunction to find out all the facts before making a judgement.

Per Article 10, I am asking you to stop this behaviour. Article 11 lays out what's expected of you in this situation, and since you're a newcomer, I will quote it here for you:

"11. If someone or multiple someones have asked you to stop what you're doing, especially on the basis of the Constitution, take a step back. Stop and look at what you are doing or saying. Take the time to think about it - the PPC isn't going anywhere. Remember the foundation of respect that the PPC community is built on (see Article 1). If they've misunderstood you, explain that - per Article 9, nine out of ten disputes are honest misunderstandings. But if there is a foundation to their request, stop and apologise. If you've made an honest mistake, or weren't aware that what you said is offensive, it's always acceptable to explain after your apology. Nobody's perfect, and nobody's born knowing everything. Just make sure that explaining why it happened once or twice doesn't turn into making excuses for why it keeps happening."

Please note that this has nothing whatsoever to do with your views on Suvians, badfics, or PPC fiction. No apologies are required for those unless you have turned them into personal attacks.

Thank you.

hS

I figured a long time ago that the PPC had adapted the Human Factor from Evil of the Daleks for use on Orc recruits.

When emailing with Phobos, she was willing to compromise and he insisted that she wasn't. Huinesoron tried to make her promise to go away even if he didn't listen to her at all. I would say that you aren't compromising. I understand that your feelings were hurt, but it was the product of misunderstanding and not being willing to admit that you struck first.

By not racist by the standards where she grew up. Not many of her kind would notice getting the stink-eye and think that she must have been doing something other than just walking through a parking lot. I get the stink-eye too, and I blame the people doing it.

I mean, purely theoretically. Really, what is there to discuss? At all?

There is not a single person in this entire community who feels remotely comfortable interacting with her. Absolutely not on the Board, and certainly not within personal emails.

Why is this still an issue? We banned her. It's done. Nobody here wants to deal with her anymore. Doesn't damn matter if she's the owner of a puppy orphanage and we're the bullies and True Racists who've kicked her fence down and painted mean graffiti on the walls--we have a right to police our internet spaces. Especially considering the entire community voted on it.
Nobody here is obliged to interact with anybody they don't want to interact with, and if you think that somebody is entitled to a discussion with somebody else just because they keep constantly requesting that discussion (which is, you know, harassment), you have a very terrible misunderstanding of the essentials of consent, which is another colossal issue entirely that you and your buddy really need to figure out.

This isn't a court of law and we're not discussing property rights or the United States constitution: we're an internet community who got sick of someone and doesn't want to deal with it. Call it unjust, oh, go ahead, but that's how it's shaken out, hasn't it?

Good grief, the only conclusion we're going to come to is we don't want her around. That's it. It's already been decided long ago, and multiple times. I am baffled as to what else there could possibly be for us to discuss.

If seeing the archives and all the repeated ban violations and harassment hasn't convinced you that maybe, just maybe we were right about some things too in this matter, I suspect I won't be the one to change your mind - and I've got better things to do than join a fight I can tell is hopeless.