Subject: What about the whole "Heracles" thing? (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2018-06-23 03:05:00 UTC
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A final goodbye, some parting words and a few announcements by
on 2018-06-17 21:21:00 UTC
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Okay, I know, I had already said I was leaving long time ago, but at the same time it wasn't a properly "final" goodbye as I kept posting chapters of my spinoff's final story.
However, that's what I wanted to talk about. For those who don't know it, I've decided to leave in the aftermath of some really nasty Board drama about one year ago, and I'd leave it at that - especially since a person who doesn't want anything to do anymore with the PPC was involved.
I had hoped things would get better by the time I was done with Blank Sprite, but they didn't - every time I posted a new chapter, I would always find drama going on or drama would pop up right afterwards.
And, of course, that would drown out my releases. The last chapter of Blank Sprite just fell off the Board, with only one person commenting on it, and the other chapters didn't fare much better. And that despite the fact that I know the quality was there - I've had very positive comments from my beta readers, most of them I believe are among the PPC's best (several being even Permission Givers or people who were nominated for the position).
It is disheartening. I've started working on Blank Sprite around 2012 - that is a six years effort, a 77.000 words story (yup, enough for it to qualify as a novel) with possibly hundreds of hours spent working on it. I've strived so much for quality that I even had an old time friend of mine, now working as a professional editor, have a look at it despite the fact that usually we didn't agree on writing matters, just for the sake of seeing if there was anything I could do better.
And this just for one comment for the final chapter while people were eager to throw themselves on the last 'bout of drama.
Okay, I now probably sound like a sour fanbrat, but that's something that saddens me. I did improve a lot as a writer while working on it, that's right, but was it any different than writing for the drawer at this point?
That is why I want to officially say that my PPC spinoffs are officially over. Not only the main Wings Of Canon one, but Keiko's spinoff as well - I'll update the pages accordingly.
While I had Keiko's fourth mission in the works, I'm thinking finishing it might not be worth the time and effort if it is going to end up not being read as Blank Sprite was - I could be using that time and effort for my book instead.
And... yes. I'm working on a fully original book of mine. The plot and characters will be loosely based on that of Blank Sprite (can't let all that work go to waste, right?), but otherwise it will be a new story. It won't have, for obvious reasons, "Sergio Turbo" on the cover, but if any of you will ever get it in their hands and read it they will probably notice.
So... that's it, pretty much. Goodbye guys and gals, it has been an honor but this place isn't working for me anymore. I wish all the best for the community, as I'm saddened to see a lot of drama going on - that is not the PPC I knew, and I hope it will be back to the way it was.
(Okay, I'll technically stay around a few days more to read some answers. But not for long. Once this thread falls off the first place, I'll be gone from here) -
I have said all along that I intend to read this, and I will by
on 2018-06-19 09:16:00 UTC
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Now, in fact. I'm going to review as I go along, so watch this space.
hS -
Thank you. by
on 2018-06-19 19:15:00 UTC
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I'm writing this as you were three chapters in, and I'm very glad you're liking it.
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Blank Sprite: Chapter 1 review. by
on 2018-06-19 09:59:00 UTC
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I was a bit dubious to start with - Blank Sprite is way outside my usual canons - but the story does a good job of filling me in on what's going on. It provides just enough information about the canons to support the story, without going into an encyclopaedia article.
Actually, the place where the description gets a bit overwrought is the agents. Lines like Nikki's response to Anne about the Vanguard:
“Yes. It works really well, and my magic stopped changing randomly[...] well, I still became a mermaid a couple of times while I was bathing, but I think you did a great job anyway!”
... have a bit too much of an 'as you know, Bob' feel to them at times. Something of the kind was necessary, I think, but possibly not this blatantly.
The story itself is good, and I like the way it's slowly unfolding. We start on a mission, then slip into something that sounds like a Jurisfiction story - and then the Factories rear their head. It all builds up quite neatly, and hints at more to come.
(Yes, there will probably be 15 separate review posts; I'm sneaking this in between pieces of work.)
hS -
Chapter 2 review. by
on 2018-06-19 12:24:00 UTC
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This chapter starts out light and easy - too easy. The fact that Sergio and Nikki are able to get exactly what they're looking for sets off all sorts of alarm bells (and it's good to see that the agents are genre-savvy enough to pick up on that!).
And then... action sequence! I think this was really well-written, and I say that as someone who has great difficulty writing action. :) It serves to increase the dissonance between the idea that the Factories are behind this, and the actual events we're seeing. I'm glad I saved this all to read at once, because I'd hate to get caught in cliffhangers down the line.
You also continue to build the background suspense over what the heck is up with Sergio's history. I'm really looking forward to getting that one answered. :)
Favourite line: “… We are being shipped by canons?"
hS -
Chapter 3 review. by
on 2018-06-19 14:14:00 UTC
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Once again, I feel like I'm in a stealth Jurisfiction crossover - and that's not a bad thing! New ways of looking at the multiverse are always welcome.
Interestingly, for all that this is a very action-packed chapter, it feels much more personal. This chapter is very much focussed on Sergio's strangeness; we see it through pretty much everyone's eyes. The equally strange goings-on (and do I feel a time loop forming?) take second place, and the action, for all that it's well-written, comes in third. It's a well-written chapter, with good storytelling technique.
Favourite line: What was she? A fairy with an Internet connection?
hS -
Chapter 4 review. by
on 2018-06-21 14:40:00 UTC
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Okay, the navigational mishap made me smile. ^_^
I'm constantly appreciative of the details from PPC history you bring into this story. NASTY may only be a footnote to the tale, but they're something that Corolla should have turned up, so I'm pleased that she did.
Some of the emotions in the latter half of this chapter don't ring quite true with me, but partly that could simply be that I don't know the canon characters. Sergio comes across as more believable than them, so I'm inclined to go with that explanation.
Favourite line: [Couldn’t someone have taken her rifle and copied her handwriting?] Corolla wondered. Sensible!Corolla is best Corolla.
hS -
Chapter 5 review. by
on 2018-06-21 15:36:00 UTC
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In my head I have this pegged as The Flashback Episode, and because of that I've got half an eye open for Chekhovs. I'm assuming on general principles that every single person mentioned is going to come back up; that's just how this sort of thing goes. ^_^
Sergio talks at times here like he's regurgitating a prologue, and I don't think that's accidental. It makes perfect sense to me that a character telling their own backstory would drift into a more narrative tone; it's a mild case of Tom Bombadil way back in Suedom, who could only speak in his canonical lines.
I deeply appreciate the girls' eminently sensible behaviour - when confronted with a question that could be answered by a CAD, Nikki goes right to pulling out a CAD, and when there are questions outstanding, Corolla does the research and forms a viable theory. There's no plot-forced artificial stupidity here.
Favourite line: [We kinda have a bigger problem to deal with here, and angsting won’t solve anything. And the problem is: what the heck is up with this mission?]
... it is possible that Corolla is my favourite character so far.
hS -
I'm glad you liked this chapter. by
on 2018-06-24 10:23:00 UTC
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Chapter 5 was the one I had the most doubts with - it is basically Sergio's backstory narrated by him in a single sitting so I was afraid it could be too infodumpy. I'm happy this is not the case.
And yes, I believe Corolla is my best character, too. -
Chapter 6 review. by
on 2018-06-22 15:19:00 UTC
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Chapter 6
The moment with the song at the start of this chapter is really sweet. I like the fact that the agents clearly show their affection for the various canons, without descending into fangirling of the sort shown by even Jay and Acacia. It fits their characters nicely.
I also like how Nikki's feelings for Sergio come across, particularly in her conversation with Homura. It helps that she's right in what she says, of course.
... and then the plot - the real plot, the one about 'what in the worlds is going on with Sergio' - kicks into high gear. In true traditional fashion, I have little to say about this part, because I'm too busy reading it. ^_^ I absolutely love the way you framed the middle of this chapter, though. And the ending... gulp!
Favourite line:
[Time wasn’t supposed to elapse in your world afterward in relation to the PPC’s standard time. Or something. Multidimensional physics are kinda confusing.]
“… I’m still trying to understand that I’m a fictional character whose life is written by someone else, actually,” Homura admitted.
“Well, as of now, nobody is writing us,” Nikki reassured her.
“You sure, Nikki?” Sergio asked. “Maybe that 14 year-old idiot who wrote me back in 2006 is still at it.”
This sort of thing perfectly bottles all four characters and their relations to each other. It's brilliant.
hS -
Chapter 7 review. by
on 2018-06-25 12:33:00 UTC
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"Guido Piano". XD
Did... did Sergio just get attacked by a flashback? Okay, this definitely feeds into the theme that the closer he gets to his previous life, the more that life will try to take him over. I like the fact that it's a subtle theme, rather than a big in-your-face thing.
And, hooray! Corolla in person! :D And an absolutely cliche scene which knows full well it's a cliche, and delights in it.
Favourite line: [Homura Akemi. Puella Magi Madoka Magica canon cha— Wait a minute, how did you get hold of me and why are you scanning yourself?] Snarky CADs come just after sensible Corolla on my list of favourites. :D
hS -
Chapter 8 review. by
on 2018-06-28 10:38:00 UTC
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Ha, Sergio's timeline manipulations are hilarious. ^^ And Corolla's are nice and sneaky.
I like the mismatched furniture. I also like the fact that the girls still don't care about Sergio's past (in a good way): it's clear he wants to be all angsty about it, but Corolla in particular is having none of that.
In fact, in general it's great to have Corolla in the field at last. She's great. ^^ The whole snowmobile scene was brilliant, and her interactions later in the chapter are building nicely both the stories of the overall quest, and of Sergio's personal arc.
Favourite line: “I’m still going to do my best. I’m not accepting a Bad End for you two, I’m aiming for the Perfect Golden Ending!” Corolla is a dedicated shipper. ^_^
... I will probably talk less about Corolla from here on out. Maybe. No promises.
hS -
Goodbye then... by
on 2018-06-18 07:22:00 UTC
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It really saddens me that you're leaving this place for good (and while I'm using it, and had RPs, RPGs and other things on it, when I look at the drama it spawned and Boarders it made leave... Is Discord worth it?)...
Sorry for not reacting more about Blank Sprite (And I was feeling similar feelings when I posted my missions... Pot? Kettle called. He said you're black.). I've been reading the whole story, and fully intends to post a C&C of the final chapter on the site... but Real Life has been getting busy with job searching lately (Welp, eight monthes of being jobless, but things quickened up in June), and I have at least three other C&C for other stories I've been following are on the backburner too. And I'll join your beta-readers, the story is an excellent one.
And I'd very much want to read Teiko's fourth lission myself. And I'm sure other on this Board would want to.
I'll also gladly read that original book, and would really hope I won't miss when it's published.
Duck I hated when the goodbyes began when you left, I hate them as much now. Still, good luck for the future.
P.S.: For the drama... Really? I know I tend to avoid it when it seems like boiling, but every time... I hoped te situation was getting better. -
And the C&C is now done. by
on 2018-06-21 14:03:00 UTC
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Posted it on Blank Sprite 15. To people here, read the story, it's so worth it.
Goodbye again, I guess, and thanks for the help on that one Madoka trollfic i missionned... -
Thnak you for your review. by
on 2018-06-24 10:06:00 UTC
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Though I'm kinda puzzled by how you keep calling Keiko "Teiko"...
Anyways, since you seem to also like Josh as a character, I shall point you to where he's from:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/560180/
Yup, he's a canon character. With a catch: the one featured in Blank Sprite is an alternate universe version authorized (and checked before publishing) by the game's developer himself, as we've been friends for a while.
The proof? Once you reach a certain level, you're forced to use the extended roster characters instead of the main team. Scroll down to Stubborn Mongoose, I bet he'll be very familiar... -
... I was offering you a mini as a farewell gift? by
on 2018-06-24 13:02:00 UTC
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(Dang, and yet I didn't read something with a Teiko in recently, and worst, I had Keiko's name right in the same review, so how I end up doing this...)
Yeah, Stubborn Mongoose is ringing some bells... The bandana, I think (Saw him on the presentation video for now. Playing the game just joined y list of things to do...). -
Goodbye, this is why I don't use the discord. (nm) by
on 2018-06-18 02:00:00 UTC
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Discord in general is deserving of its name. (nm) by
on 2018-06-20 22:59:00 UTC
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Well-played. (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 02:17:00 UTC
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... *tosses golden apple* (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 10:58:00 UTC
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Give me that and I'll make you ruler of the PPC. (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 11:10:00 UTC
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No no, clearly the wisest course would be to give it to me. (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 14:28:00 UTC
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I'm hot. Gimme. (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 14:34:00 UTC
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Let's weigh the options. by
on 2018-06-21 15:17:00 UTC
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1) If I valued wisdom in the slightest, I would not be holding this apple right now. Sorry, Neshthena.
2) Kinging is cool. So, maybe Herasoron.
3) Scaphrodite is definitely hot. Can't argue with the logic there.
Final decision: If Scaphrodite can throw in Helen of Sparta, we've got a deal. I mean, pissing off the Spartans has never gone wrong, and that chick has serious resting boat-face.
-Paris -
We have Spartans here? by
on 2018-06-21 15:41:00 UTC
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Uh... what about if I offered to let you rule them too? That would include Helen, obviously...
I mean, personally, given the presence of multiverally-aware goddesses, I would've gone for a bigger name than Helen. Luthien, maybe?
((... does this mean I'm now roleplaying Lesbian Hera? ~hS)) -
Ah, but with great wisdom comes great power. by
on 2018-06-21 16:12:00 UTC
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In return for your gift, I can in return gift you with the wisdom to conquer your enemies swiftly, rule your subjects prosperously, and woo the lady fair, too, if that's what you're into.
How do you think I got where I am, eh? Waving a big stick and batting your eyelashes are well and good, but only if you're smart enough to pick the best time to do it.
~Neshthena -
... I'm still the hot one. Gimme. (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 17:36:00 UTC
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/shoves Nesh at you instead by
on 2018-06-21 23:13:00 UTC
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/deliberate misinterpretation of what you wanted to be given, activate!
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Even though the Shipfest has been and gone I'll allow it. =] (nm by
on 2018-06-23 00:40:00 UTC
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Now I picture Zeus and Hera trying to woo the same woman... by
on 2018-06-21 15:58:00 UTC
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Some people would say that line of thinking has run to its end. I think this trainwreck needs to continue. For science.
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Oh, you would not believe the stories I have. by
on 2018-06-21 16:42:00 UTC
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Those Greeks were so ashamed, they tried to write me - me! - out of the official mythstories, and when they couldn't quite manage that - hello, Queen of Olympos here! - they cast me as the jealous-slash-murderous abandoned wife instead.
Io? Io was mine, my very own priestess, until that husband of mine pulled his cow-transformation trick. Ha! He'd have been better trying that on Europa; she would have appreciated it, unlike my poor Io.
Danae? Mine. Okay, yes, I encouraged her father to keep her safe, but wouldn't you? Women in these murder prophecies never end well.
Leda? Mine, until Zeus got his swan on. Why do you think I was so against Scaphrodite's Helen plot? The girl was practically my daughter!
I swear, I wouldn't have minded so much if he hadn't gone so unerringly for my girls... -
Desperate/Sick attempts to one-up you? by
on 2018-06-21 17:03:00 UTC
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It paints the relationship between you in a so screwed-up way, even beyond the 'official version'...
Science and mythology need the authentic versions of these stories. Think you can spare some time to do so someday? -
Well, you asked for it. by
on 2018-06-21 19:40:00 UTC
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Ixion and Dia
Ixion was a son of Phlegyas the Lapith king, and of his wife who no-one bothered to name. Typical, isn't it? Anyway, Ixion agreed to marry Dia, daughter of Eioneus, promising rich bridal gifts and inviting Eioneus to a banquet. You'll note that he didn't invite Dia, or even speak to her. Again - typical.
Of course, it turned out that Ixion had no intention of paying the bribe he was offering Dia's dad. He set a pitfall in front of his palace, with a great charcoal fire underneath, into which the unsuspecting Eioneus fell and was burned.
(The gods, of course, receive sacrifices through burning; I have it on good authority that a certain someone whose name rhymes with Blapollo was heartily sick after sniffing this one.)
Though every woman on Olympos thought this a heinous deed, and refused to purify Ixion, Zeus, having 'behaved equally ill himself when in love' (yes, that's an actual quote; some of these mythtellers are on my side), not only purified the wretch but brought him to eat at his table.
I - sorry, Hera, the divine Queen of Heaven, absolutely refused to share a meal with that beast. Luckily, she had Nephele, a cloud-form that she used for... certain... recreational purposes; it was a simple matter to transform it to look like herself, and send it to the meal in her stead.
The Queen then paid a visit to poor Dia. With her father dead, and her husband an outlawed, abusive sociopath, she was in sore need of comfort, and Hera was happy to oblige.
Things were going exceedingly well, when suddenly there was a clattering of hooves. Barely had Hera hidden herself behind a pillar when a horse cantered in, twenty hands tall, crowned with lightning, and very obviously a stallion, if you take my meaning. Poor Dia was caught entirely unprepared, and, well, there are none who can stand between Zeus the Thunderer and his desires.
Yes, Zeus, realising that Ixion's presence on Olympos had left his beautiful wife alone, had sculpted his own, inferior cloud-form and snuck down to the mortal realm to have his way with her. I know the Zeus-cloud was inferior, because a quality cloud-image would never have allowed what happened at the high table.
Ixion, obviously, was utterly ungrateful of his undeserved honours, and planned to seduce Hera. Being completely without a functioning brain, he did this with only the barest attempt at subtlety, and there was no-one in the great temple who didn't know what was going on.
Yes, they all allowed this mortal to outright assault the Queen of Heaven, and yes, very harsh words were had on my - sorry, her - return. The cloud Nephele was built to be receptive to such advances, but someone should have done something. Not least any properly-designed Zeus-cloud - you'd think 'protect my wife' would be priority number one!
Zeus returned midway through the disgraceful ocurrance, leaving poor Dia an utter emotional wreck. Luckily she had a kind goddess to hand to offer her comfort... meanwhile, Zeus surprised Ixion in the very act of his defilement, and promptly claimed that it had all been part of his master plan. It's amazing how often he does that.
The Thunderer ordered Hermes to scourge the mortal mercilessly, and then bind him to a fiery wheel which rolled ceaselessly through the sky thereafter, which frankly was better than he deserved. Poor Nephele was banished to earth before Hera could get back; she bore him a child by the name of Centaurus, who was ultimately the father of Chiron. Then she married a king, got thrown over for a maenad, ended up running a taxi service with flying golden sheep... look, it was all a bit of a mess.
As for Dia? Unlike her fickle husband, Hera is always faithful to her lovers. Once everything had blown over, and Dia had found someone to look after her son by Zeus, Pirithous (lovely boy, not very lucky though), the merciful and just Queen of Heaven spirited her away to the courts of Olympos. A little light cosmetic surgery, and she passed for one of the many nymphs who populate the place. No-one would take the slightest notice of just another nymph heading towards Hera's private quarters... ahem.
((With sincere apologies to Robert Graves, author of The Greek Myths, whose text has been thoroughly mangled for this purpose. ~hS)) -
Robert Graves was himself a man with some weird ideas. (nm) by
on 2018-06-22 03:09:00 UTC
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What, you mean... by
on 2018-06-22 09:01:00 UTC
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... every single Greek myth ever wasn't about the ancient practice of sacrificing your king all the time? Huh, who'd'a thunk it? ^_~
Yeah, he's weird, and his prose is kind of terse and dull. But it's the only complete telling of the Greek myths I've got to hand, so.
hS -
Two recommendations by
on 2018-06-23 03:04:00 UTC
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I would give Thomas Bulfinch's "Mythology" and Edith Hamilton's "Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes" a try, though the latter has Heracles-Bashing. It casts him as a big, dumb, brute, even though he demonstrated cleverness on many occasions.
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A fun intro... by
on 2018-06-26 10:48:00 UTC
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is D'Aulaire's Greek Myths. It has really wonderful pictures, and covers a lot of the stories. It glosses over a lot of the more messed up sexual stuff to make it kid friendly, although it did include the guy mating with a cloud to somehow produce centaurs, so clearly didn't skip over all of it.
My youngest kid's school program introduces the book as a read aloud with flashcards of the important bits in 3rd grade and then again in 4th with more writing involved. My kid is spelling challenged, so no idea how I am going get him spelling things like Hephaestus this next year.
They sell it in paperback, but it's one I'd recommend getting in hard cover, it's a keeper. They have a D'Aulaire's Norse Myths, too.
My oldest second's Bulfinch's for more mature readers. -
Thanks (nm) by
on 2018-06-27 01:27:00 UTC
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There is a point where we needed to stop... by
on 2018-06-21 20:04:00 UTC
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And we have clearly passed it...
But let's keep going and see what happens.
I laughed so hard at this version of the story, and we clearly need more. Going down that rabbit hole is best decision ever.
But now I think about this, the fact Pirithous is a son of Zeus and wanted to marry a daugther of Zeus... barf. -
Hang on, weren't like... by
on 2018-06-21 23:05:00 UTC
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...weren't Zeus and Hera siblings too? I mean from what I remember, they were both Cronus's children?! Or is the book I was taught out of getting it wrong?
Whatever the case, when you look into it deep enough, ancient mythologies are basically the weird stories the human race wrote when it was a kid! Am I right?
-Twisthalia (see what I did?) -
Oh. It's one of the muses. by
on 2018-06-22 09:10:00 UTC
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And how is your mother Mnemosyne, my dear? Still smarting from forgetting (see what I did there?) to keep Zeus from my side? Of course, she was his aunt, so it was never going to last, was it?
And yes, Zeus is my brother, but have you seen what my other options were? The Titans were all either jerks or married, their kids were even worse (well, Eos was lovely, but she had a thing for militant types), the older generations were a complete shambles, and Prometheus' little mud-creatures were simply mucky. It wasn't until Hephaestus made the lovely Pandora (the first use of bone china in creature creation, and didn't it just show!) that they were worth paying the slightest attention to.
I suppose there was always Scaphrodite, she wasn't technically a relative, but, um, no. Not my type.
And... well, Zeus is Zeus. If you had a choice between the King of the Gods and, like, anyone else, which one would you marry?
((Herasoron is so petty, you guys. XD ~hS)) -
(Oh, it's on, Herasoron, it's on.) by
on 2018-06-25 01:29:00 UTC
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[Twisthalia has now entered roast mode.]
Ahem.
First of all, I read that to punish Leto, you prolonged her pregnancy to nine months. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that's how the average pregnancy came to be nine months in the first place. How petty is a goddess who does something to punish one woman and ends up harming every woman in the process? Why don't you think before you revenge for once?
Second of all, speaking of Hephaestus, the poor guy! You threw him off Olympus either for his face or his limp, based on different accounts. I'm pretty sure it was his face. So hey, you're superficial, but at least you're not ableist, am I right? Either way, get with the times.
Third of all... all the things you did to Hercules and his mom. Delayed birth, the snakes, the insanity, the twelve labors. Do you deserve to be on this Board if you yourself are prone to... going to such lengths to smite your enemies? I mean, we are deities (some greater than others), but there's a right way and a wrong way to do deity stuff, and you seem like you're trying kinda hard to fulfill your wishes. Like a bad author. I guess.
-Twisthalia
(I have a bad feeling about this. -Twistey) -
Oh dear, my dear. You are so tragically misinformed. by
on 2018-06-25 10:40:00 UTC
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'First of all', to quote you, Leto deserved everything she got; or do you think attempting to steal my husband and my throne was just a light-hearted jape? Secondly, she only gave birth at all due to finding loopholes in my decrees; the 'nine months' thing was a fluke that should never have happened.
Thirdly, the fact that a trio of deities (Zeus, Neshthena, and Hephaestus) who never knew their mothers simply assumed that nine months was a good length for a pregnancy is hardly my fault; had my husband only asked before ordaining the creation of Pandora (and if you want to talk about mistreatment of women, look at that!), I could have set him straight. But he didn't.
I'm not even going to address your scurrilous accusations regarding Hephaestus. But as for little Alcides - who does not deserve to use my name, thank you very much - he was a brat from birth (why do you think I tried to stop it?). He attempted to maul me as an infant, but did I retaliate? No! I let Athene take him away in peace, because of my overwhelming kindness.
To find that Alcmene promptly renamed him after me to celebrate her petty victory, and then immediately accused me of trying to murder him with snakes (snakes! Why would I send snakes?) was the biggest slap in the face you can imagine.
As for blaming his wretched violence on me, I'm sorry, but do you not even remember the way he slaughtered your nephew Linus? The boy was clearly wrong in the head, and he only proved that when he murdered poor Megara. Nor did the Labours have anything to do with me; he was set to them by the Oracle at... Delphi... wait a minute.
Serpents are the followers of Hermes, son of Zeus and that fallen star Maia. Madness is the blessing of Dionysus, son of Zeus and Semele. Delphi is the domain of Apollo, son of Zeus and Leto.
... my Me. The whole wretched 'Heracles' affair was a plot by my husband's sons to discredit me. I bet Neshthena was in on it too! They're out to get me, the lot of them!
No... no. Calm down, Herasoron. Everything is fine. Your husband loves you. Your handmaids love you. You are beautiful and powerful.
Right.
Your attempts to break me have failed, Twisthalia, daughter of Zeus. Go back to your little comedies.
((o.O Well, that took a few turns I wasn't expecting. ~hS)) -
Well, I can fact check on my own time, because I'm not done! by
on 2018-06-26 00:51:00 UTC
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A joke, or in this case, a roast, can be completely wrong and still be effective as long as someone aside from the joke teller laughs. Why do you think there are "yo mama" jokes?
Anyway, breaking people has never been my specialty. Leave that to the Amphilogiai. Instead I take whatever situations I get cornered in and laugh at them. It's my way of rolling with the punches, and you'd know that if you cared enough about me to actually examine my personality. I make people laugh. It's my deal.
So, since you started this fight, how it works should probably be on my terms. All we need to see who won is to get the audience to decide who was funnier... intentionally, I mean, not like how people who think that the trails made by airplanes are made of brainwashing chemicals are funny.
...gods damn it, I don't see much of an audience. Hey! Hey Scaphrodite, you replied to Herasoron's post too! You're an audience! Who's funnier around here? Make sure to be honest - being Scaphrodite, you can always repair your own face, right? And also mine?
-Twisthalia
(This'll probably be close. I don't feel like I was actually being funny when I made these posts. Oops a daisy. -Twistey) -
Herasoron's Resolve is tested... by
on 2018-06-25 15:35:00 UTC
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"The walls close in, and every shadow hides conspiracy." -
Actually, calling off the battle. Scaphrodite wins. by
on 2018-06-26 00:53:00 UTC
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You managed to be funnier than me in this situation. Partly because I'm tired and can't think straight, but you just win in general. I'm going to take notes from this event now.
-Twisthalia -
What about the whole "Heracles" thing? (nm) by
on 2018-06-23 03:05:00 UTC
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-
Fare thee Well by
on 2018-06-18 01:24:00 UTC
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Good luck to you and whatever you do next!
-
/waves/ Go Well, Sergio. by
on 2018-06-18 00:15:00 UTC
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I'll keep an eye out for that future book. /Optional!Hugs
-
I haven't been reading many spinoffs... by
on 2018-06-17 23:00:00 UTC
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Currently I'm finishing reading the Original Series as part of my preparation for a Permission attempt, but now that the Wiki has been discovered as miraculously unblocked on my computer, Blank Sprite is going on my list. Just for a fellow PPCer.
I understand your decision and I wish you good luck with whatever you do next.
-Twistey -
I haven't read most of Blank Sprite by
on 2018-06-17 22:34:00 UTC
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A lot of that down was down to not having any idea what was going on by the time its existence came to my attention, and feeling like I didn't have the time to start at the beginning with various other goings-on and priorities, both life and media-wise.
That being said, I do agree we have a general problem with not reviewing or at least acknowledging we've read stuff around here - so I'm going to make my Nth call for people to at least drop an "I read your thing (nm)" on stuff they read because it's better than cricket noises.
- Tomash -
That's exactly what I was going to say! by
on 2018-06-18 18:43:00 UTC
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I've always been one to trust in the advice to write for yourself rather than for others, but even so it's become disturbingly common nowadays for more than a few Boarders to have devoted days or even weeks of effort to writing, proofreading, and the complex business of beta-reading, post the final product on the Board in the hopes of receiving reader compliments and feedback, and be met with utter silence while everyone else pays far more attention to other Boarders, events, or things. It's happened several times in my case as well, much to my chagrin, and although I have yet to have my writing inadvertently upstaged by drama I'll gladly second Tomash's sentiment regarding this issue. Reader critique is essential for writers to move forward and failing to provide it may result in the risk of stagnation on the author's part and a decline in work quality - something I myself know from experience over the past few years as a PPC writer.
And as for the whole deal with consistent drama, this was the reason for my (admittedly misguided and poorly worded) statement that I was disappointed with the community in the aftermath of a former member leaving and requesting to be locked out as penance for attacking the Board on behalf of someone who was banned twice in a row. For all intents and purposes, consider that statement retracted. I came to the PPC because I thought it to be drama-free unlike certain communities I had left behind (or was kicked out of) over the years, and I've made a lot of great friends thanks to it; in hindsight I should've known that the Ironic Overpower was already setting its sights on my naivete regarding the dearth of drama at the time. As Neshomeh put it, though, "neither [the banned person] nor any other individual has the power to ruin the PPC unless we give it to them by losing our cool over them." I know there have been quite a few slip-ups over the years - some worse than others, as Sergio noted - but from what I've been seeing, The Nameless Admin has done a good job dealing with most of the things that troubled us since. I guess my earlier bitterness was due to a combination of singling out the drama without considering the good things this community has to offer and sealing myself in a mental panic room whenever I see things going south (which is a very real bad habit my family has been helping me to break!).
While I did consider leaving myself not long after the incident Sergio mentioned, I quickly decided against it in part because I still have obligations regarding my PPC characters in the future. I will however repeat my assent with regards to Tomash - in no small part because I too know all too well the feeling of months of hard work being rendered absolutely useless. -
Call for datapoints by
on 2018-06-18 19:37:00 UTC
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We've noticed here that, as a general trend, a decent chunk of the writing on the Board (for example, Ix and Delta's recent mission) hasn't really gotten much of a response. So, I'd like to ask: why aren't people leaving more responses?
For my part, I've run into cases where I really don't have the time to read some longer work until it's fallen off the front page and responding seemed silly or I'd ended up giving up on actually getting around to reading the thing. (There's also the case, like with Delta and Ix's mission, where I was a beta reader, which means I'd already left my comments and repeating them again felt rather redundant.)
My current hypothesis is that a noticeable part of the problem comes from the community is drifting older and real-life-having-er (due to a slowdown in the number of newbies because we're hiding off in a near-invisible corner of the internet) which has left us collectively with less time to read stuff.
- Tomash -
I have many thoughts about this entire thread. by
on 2018-06-20 00:05:00 UTC
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I'm on a bus, though, so I'll keep to this bit for now.
Why I personally may not review:
Sometimes I may feel I have nothing constructive to add (and we did go through a period of people complaining against one-line "this was good!" type comments, IIRC), but it's usually because I didn't read it.
Why didn't I read it:
- As hS says, as an adult, the time and energy commitment is costlier to me than it was when I was in college. If I have a choice between devoting my free time to reading and reviewing a mission or something else, the mission has to be more rewarding than the other thing.
- To be blunt, it usually isn't. It's nothing personal. It's just that I've been a PPCer for fifteen years; I've read a LOT of missions. It takes more to get my attention these days, even if it's in a continuum I know and by a writer I like.
I'd like to stress that I don't think this means the writing quality has dropped off (how would I know?) or that the community has changed for the worse (more thoughts on "drama" another time). Mostly, it's that I have changed. I'm at a radically different place in my life than most of the rest of you. That's no one's fault, and nothing to panic over.
- I may not care for the continuum or the style of the writer. We all have our preferences.
Now, let me answer the corollary of why I may read and review:
- As an older, more experienced member, it's something I expect of myself. Occasionally this feels burdensome, but I figure if I'm going to hang around with you kids, I should at least occasionally make an effort to embrace my adulthood and the position of mentor.
- As an older, more experienced member, I DO often have thoughts to contribute that others may not. Sharing my expertise with someone who values it is rewarding for me.
- If I like you and have a good relationship with you, I'm way more likely to read and comment on your stuff. I know I personally don't make it too easy to get to know me, though, so I don't fault anyone else on this point. More on community another time.
- If you engage with my writing/other output, I'm more likely to engage with yours. More on the social contract another time.
I think that's all the major points? Again, though, on a bus. I may have missed things.
~Neshomeh -
Sadly, yes. by
on 2018-06-19 09:13:00 UTC
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I pretty much reply to anything I read - I just don't read anything. It's a combination of a number of factors:
-I don't have much extended 'free time' on the computer, and what I do have (at home), I use for other things (ie, games).
-I don't like reading long things on a phone.
-Missions today are much, much longer than they used to be.
-I don't know most of the canons people are working in these days; relatedly, the habit of mentioning what canon a mission is in in the subject line has been lost, so the ones I do know are hidden away.
-I don't know the agents, and most stories nowadays are built around the assumption that you do. The first part springs out of all the foregoing, but it's a definite vicious cycle: I don't know the agents, so I can't get into the missions, so I don't get to know the agents...
hS -
Tangential question by
on 2018-06-19 16:04:00 UTC
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How understandable/enjoyable should a mission be if you don't know the canon? Does it depend on the fic and what exactly's bad about it?
(And, from what I can tell, all we know about the related question "How understandable should a PPC story be if you don't know the spinoff?" is that many recent stories are having problems in this regard.)
- Tomash -
Hmmm. (+ a whole long thing on agent reintroductions) by
on 2018-06-19 13:08:00 UTC
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Some interesting points. Interesting points which make me want to take some of that into account with the next thing I write! Unfortunately, I write/publish somewhat slowly, so I'm not sure how immediately effective that could be, but...I'll still keep it in mind. Especially the last two points. And hopefully I *will* be posting some things soonish. Maybe. Hopefully. End of semester is a poor time to be saying that, but I'm a daredevil today.
In terms of making the agents accessible: any tips on how to do that gently? I immediately think a bit of how JKR reintroduces characters at the beginning of each book, but possibly done more simply? For instance, kind of weaving in bits of information near the beginning, but not pausing to recap a little?
Come to think of it, Tamora Pierce does this as well...actually, if I pick up the first book of hers within reach, Briar's Book (fourth in a series), this is what I get in the first chapter:
-Briar himself, the third person POV character for this chapter, gets reintroduced bit by bit as the plot starts up. Little bits of his past and his present, what he's learning, who he is, how he acts in different situations--it gets presented through mentions, comparisons, even dialogue with other characters (including one who's never met him before, but has a very good reason for doing so). We get a good sense of who he is and where he's been (and currently is) in life without the author ever really stopping for a couple paragraphs to throw the information at us. Everything is just woven in, in a way that doesn't really seem forced--just a tiny bit introspective, if that.
-Briar's adoptive sisters and their teachers mostly just get establishing details of their names and what they do in life, though to be fair, they're not in this chapter at all. Only Sandry appears: accordingly, we get little notes on her personality, which, considering that they inform Briar's responses to her, fit in very well.
-Briar's teacher, Rosethorn, gets a lot more, which makes sense since she's quite present in the chapter. We first get her name and occupation, in the context of Briar's thoughts to do with why they're in the city at all. In the same paragraph, we find out a little bit about her strength of will, still in the same context. On the next page, we get a physical description and Briar's past reaction to it--which help establish her further, both because (though it's not mentioned now) Rosethorn is a bit vain about her face and because Briar's reaction does actually reflect on her personality. We also get a brief mention of her power and what she's actually teaching Briar. A few pages later, we get another establishing detail or two about her in connection with Briar, before she reappears in person. Then we get only one or two more establishing hints, still in the context of Briar's thoughts.
And I know it's the next chapter, but I want to mention that that one starts off reintroducing a recurring secondary character through the eyes of his niece (Sandry). It also introduces Sandry. In the first three paragraphs, we get a good bit of physical description (and a bit of recent history) in a way that makes sense. We open with them having tea and being pleased to see each other, continue with a mention that it's been a hard winter in the time elapsed since the last book, and flow into the second paragraph with Sandry reflecting on how that winter affected her uncle (using physical description to also show emotional state) and seguing very naturally from there into briefly describing why he dresses simply, which says a good deal about both his personality and his strength as a ruler. In the third paragraph, we get physical description of Sandry, with hints of personal description, in the context of her having dressed up on purpose.
And I'm going to cut myself off here, because as fun as it is to go on analyzing, there are at least three more characters to talk about, and this will just become essay length.
My point with all this? This is the fourth book in a series, with nine characters to reintroduce within the first couple chapters, not to mention bits of the setting. Looking at it, I think her methods actually could be adapted well to missions, though they might have to be shortened--though, then again, most missions don't involve eight or more agents! I think weaving in descriptions could be done, though it might take some practice and editing to make sure it flows logically. A nice little challenge! I'm going to try to take it.
Any further ideas?
--
Reintroducing agents more might also help with my own reasons for not reading all the recent missions. Those primarily boil down to:
-I don't know the canon, and if the agents didn't start off in ones I did know, and at a time when I had free time to read missions, I'm usually not going to follow them in. Unless the summary *really* grabs me, but with a canon I don't know...that can be hard.
As for what happened with Blank Sprite...I think I was actually a beta early on? The problem is: canon I don't know, characters I don't feel I know too well yet...the latest summaries were interesting, and more and more I'm thinking I might go back and read it from the beginning, but--that's the thing. When part 12 is going up, at a busy time, going back to the beginning unfortunately becomes a bit daunting, especially if you're unfamiliar with most of what's involved. However, given I'm pretty sure some of my favorite tropes showed up by the end, I may have to go back and give it a proper go. It's an impressive piece of work, and I've been both glad and impressed to watch the parts keep going up, even if I wasn't reading at the time.
~Z -
Sadly I think it's more on the readers. by
on 2018-06-19 16:24:00 UTC
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To take a specific example: Blank Sprite is perfectly enjoyable. I remember only the vaguest things about the agents, know nothing about the canons, but I've read three chapters so far and will be moving onto the fourth when I've stopped replying to things on the Board. ^_~ The problem has never been that I start reading and go 'uggh, who are all these people?' - it's that I never start reading at all.
And partly that's length. When I wrote the Woodsprite of the North mission, it was ridiculously long, clocking in at around 11,500 words. Terri's note at the top of it describes it as 'one of the more epic DOGA missions'.
Well, Of Wolves and Fellowship (my most recent full-length 'real' mission) is only 3000 words shy of that. Ix and Delta's mission at the bottom of the front page is 2000 more than it. Compare that to TOS, where around 5000 words is fairly normal. Missions have been getting longer - and I've been getting lazier.
And partly it's lack of connection. Back In The Day, I talked to loads of Boarders on MSN Messenger; I was friends with them on LJ. When Gundamkiwi wrote a mission, I didn't go 'oh, anime, skip' - I went 'hey, it's Kiwi!'. Now, even the people I know best on the Board, I only interact with here or in occasional emails. I know, other options are still out there, but I have my own issues with those - not least of which is time.
And partly, yeah, it's time. I used to read every mission that came through, because I was a university student with loads of downtime and no friends. Now, I'm at work all day, spending time with my wife in the evenings, and entertaining small children at the weekends. Whether it's 5K or 15K, I don't have the time to settle down with a mission I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy. (Most books I read nowadays are ones I've already read, too. I'm working through the latter Discworld novels at the moment, among other things.)
What can a writer do to counter that? I don't know. I've tried various things myself - short missions is my big one - but they didn't have a huge impact. Too many confounding factors. I don't know.
hS -
I'm going to make a point of reading more missions now. (nm) by
on 2018-06-21 02:22:00 UTC
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-
A realization by
on 2018-06-21 20:08:00 UTC
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Because of our tendency to roll our own mission hosting, and double especially because a lot of stuff has moved to Google Docs, there's no good or uniform ways to leave a review (or even some sort of "I like this") on things that have fallen off the front page or that are sitting on the wiki, such as, say this Young Wizards mission by hS (thoughts: the chocolate scene at the beginning was funny, "only when so inclined" and surrounding was a nice bit of dialogue, the execution method was clever).
Does anyone have any suggestions here? (I don't, really, but pointing out the issue seemed important.)
- Tomash -
Google Docs by
on 2018-06-26 10:37:00 UTC
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I love Google Docs. That's where I do all my writing. Which is probably why I hate reading finished works in Google Docs. I always have a nagging feeling that the work isn't complete when I am reading it there. It's probably just a weird thing specific to me, but just throwing that out there.
The main thing, though, is that I was gone for a long time and it's like a foreign country to me now. I don't know many of the people, and fewer of the agents, and I'm reluctant to go back and start at the beginning to learn the agents, especially if I have no knowledge of the canons. -
Wiki talk pages? by
on 2018-06-21 22:32:00 UTC
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Either user pages or agent pages, if they exist.
Though, every mission of mine links to my user talk page, and I think it's been used once in the many years since I started doing that. I don't know if that's because there's an aversion to it, or because the people who tend to use the wiki tend to be active and thus review when things are first published, or what.
~Neshomeh -
I think it's a combination of lots of factors. by
on 2018-06-22 09:33:00 UTC
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(... which is a brilliantly nonspecific answer; everything is a combination of lots of factors.)
Thinking back to the old days on FF.net, there was a lot of subtle emphasis on reviews:
-On the category page and on the story itself, you had the number of previous reviews front and centre, with a link to let you read them. They weren't just for the author - they were for other readers, too.
-You had a big empty text box at the bottom of the page, inviting you to write in it.
-Chapter length limits meant you saw a lot of those text boxes. You'd probably split a big, modern mission over three or four chapters, whereas on GDocs or a website, it's all one huge column of words.
-"Please R&R!" "Reviews are very welcome." "If I get five reviews of this chapter, I'll continue!" "If you review my story, I'll review yours!" These things come across as shallow attention-seeking, and we love to mock them... but they also work.
We don't have that. Even your user page is hidden away behind a link; it's not there, in your face. And the lack of ability to review elsewhere (and the fact that we've drifted away from being a community of fanfic writers and readers) means people have lost the... the cultural imperative to do so.
... hmm. This gives me an idea.
hS, splitting off for a new post -
My pledge: If you review my story, I'll review yours. by
on 2018-06-22 09:43:00 UTC
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This is exactly what it says on the tin: a standing pledge to reciprocate reviews. If you leave a comment on one of my stories - whether on the Board as it's posted, on FF.net (for the few that are up there), on the Board at another time, or on the Wiki (assuming I see it) - I will reciprocate by reading and reviewing something you've written (assuming I can find something). I'll leave that review in the dedicated comment spot, if it has one, or on your Wiki talk page otherwise; I'll also put it on the Board if that's where you reviewed me.
I'm applying this slightly retroactively, so Thoth and Tomash, you can expect something when I get a chance.
hS -
/gently nudges by
on 2018-06-28 23:26:00 UTC
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Since I figure you might be interested...?
Didn't want to push anything off the front page with a new thread, is all. |D -
A few thoughts by
on 2018-06-19 17:10:00 UTC
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At this point, I've mostly resigned myself to the fact that all of my published missions and interludes might as well be writing for the drawer. Length of missions doesn't have anything to do with it; while my cowrites tend to be rather... on the long side (to put it lightly), my average mission is about 20 pages in a Google Doc, or 8k words. I'll get one, maybe two comments on any of them if I'm lucky.
The only thing people turn out to read these days are the bigger event pieces. Ix and Charlotte's wedding had the most responses that I'd seen on any of my missions since... well, around the time I did Little Miss Mary. The last two years, people have just... sort of stopped responding.
And yes, I know I don't exactly help the problem. I can't remember the last time I bothered to read a mission that wasn't by an author whose agents I didn't already know.
Confession time: it's because I'm petty. If nobody's reading my missions, why should I bother to do the same? -
Most of us are petty in that way, I think. by
on 2018-06-20 00:38:00 UTC
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Notable exceptions being doctorlit, HG, and Tomash, who have a great record of responding to everything they possibly can even if they should probably be eating or sleeping instead doc. ^_~
But yeah, for the rest of us? Input has to equal or exceed output, or the system is not sustainable. That's a thing we all need to be aware of in all our relationships, not just here, and make sure we're doing our part to keep them alive and well.
For the record, I'm awful at this. I've heard you shouldn't keep a ledger for your relationships, but if I don't I'm way too inclined to just take whatever I can get and run. I keep a balance sheet when I care enough not to do that. I reckon our resident Aspies can relate to this?
~Neshomeh -
Hey, I publish so rarely . . . by
on 2018-06-20 05:28:00 UTC
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. . . I could never expect anyone to reciprocate reviewing my stuff without the use of time travel.
—doctorlit should have gone to sleep twenty-eight minutes ago, but that doesn't prove Nesh right or anything -
The Comic Book Problem, Strange Canons, and solutions by
on 2018-06-19 23:59:00 UTC
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So the way I see it, there are a few common obstacles to missions. Here they are, itemized. I'll also try and propose some solutions or something.
1. Mission Length: Missions have been getting longer, yeah. Go reread the Blood Raining Night mission again, and at the front, Past!Nesh talks about how 30 pages is HUUUGE for a mission. Nowadays, that's... pretty average, I think. No real easy fix for that.
2. The Comicbook Problem: As you write more missions, continuity piles up, making the whole thing increasingly inpenetrable to newcomers. A lot of spinoffs get bitten by this, but I think Ix gets it the worst: Ix's spinoffs are really long, but also have a strong character drama focus, with an overarching arc of character development throughout. As such, if you don't read them all, you find yourself at a disadvantage because you're missing stuff—at least, that's the impression I've gotten, part of why I haven't gotten into them yet. Let me know if I'm wrong.
There are a few ways to deal with this:
-Don't build strong continuity: If you don't have a strong arc and character development focus, this isn't so bad for you. Trojie and Pads are a great example of this: that spinoff has a ton of missions, but you can pretty much read whatever you want, and most of them can more or less stand alone. Larf described the spinoff as "like a Saturday-morning cartoon" once, and I think he nailed it. A lot of early spinoffs also did this, as the emphasis was more on the snark and goofiness than the characters in the early days, but they were short enough that it didn't really matter.
-The "Cosmere" Approach: Dubbed as such after Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere. Sayeth TVTropes, Sanderson created the Cosmere because he "desire to create an epic length series without requiring readers to buy a ridiculous amount of books." But TVT isn't the most accurate source, I can't be sure that's true. Anyways he interlinked a ton of shorter series that all stood on their own into a larger, overarching universe. That way, newcomers had a wide variety of entry points, each series was short enough not to overwhelm, and you still got the benefits of a larger, more elaborate setting if you were willing to read all the things. In the PPC, the strongest example of this sort of thing is by far hS. hS's spinoff stuff is big. Really big. There is quite a bit of it. But see, it never feels big, because it's split up into a large number of interconnected series that can be, more or less, read in any order, each with satisfying character arcs (well, most of them, anyways. The arc-centric ones). I first started reading with Lofty Skies, Crashing Down, Not the DIO, Swan's Egg, and Tales from DoGA. But had I gone through Newbies, Origins, Wanderer, DWT, and Elsewhere In Action, I would have been just as able to comprehend things. This is a massive strength, and a credit to hS's writing. It's also a credit that he uses the large cast he has to make the PPC feel really alive and active, and to keep the goofiness of the PPC alive while he actually does genuinely serious character arcs. But enough stroking hS's ego. He doesn't need it.
-Not writing many missions: This is the simple approach: you don't have to manage complexity if you never create it. Although it has its own problems, of course. Many PPCers use this strategy. Like me! (but I'm working on it.)
3. The Canons-you-don't-know problem: I'll be honest... I don't see this as a problem so much. I mean, it is slightly, but it's not disasterous. The first trick is ensuring that people who don't know the canon don't get lost, which... I am notoriously bad at. Heck, I failed to get my Permission first time around for a large part because I didn't give proper context for my characters and most of my betas knew them already such that they couldn't catch the issue ahead of time. Massive failing on my part. So... if you want your mission to be decipherable to people who don't know the canon, get betas who don't know the canon, and get them to tell you when they're confused.
The other trick is holding the uninitiated reader's interest. This is really a test of your abilities as a writer, and of the strength of your agents. Because in the absence of canon knowledge, the horror of the fic's crimes against that canon aren't as strong a draw, nor is the joy of seeing all those bad tropes you see in your ff.net browsings day after day getting ripped into. So what remains is the strength of the characters and their interactions (and their snark—this is the PPC after all), which really ought to be the central focus anyways. We may be critics, but the primary focus of a PPC mission is to entertain.
Part of the reason this has never been so much a probkem is because reading fics in canons I don't know well or don't care about was a big part of my PPC experience. I don't even know if I'd read LoTR when I first stumbled across TOS, and even if I had, I was mocked at the time for not knowing the difference between Barad-dur and Khazad-dun. I wasn't a dedicated Rings fan, but I devoured TOS and OFUM, because they were funny and clever and enjoyable. Heck, a good mission can even get someone into something. Seeing Nume and Illraen deal with Young Wizards made me want to read it just as much as the board threads that were appearing at the time, a Labyrinth mission is what definitively put it on my list for watching (I will, I swear!), if I hadn't read LoTR by then, ToS inspired me to do so, Suicide put GoF on my radar and got me to read it (and made it weird as hell but that's another story), and while Pern had been on my list for a while, Nume, Illraen, and Derik sealed the deal.
That's about it for now. -
Thoth's recruitment: A review. by
on 2018-06-25 16:11:00 UTC
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Thank you for the comments! Knowing what you're doing well is just as important as knowing what you're not doing well. I like to think that the 'connected but not' thing you're commenting on is deliberate - while (for instance) readers who already know Selene will get more out of seeing her in Driftwood, it's by no means essential, and I did that on purpose. But... some of it is also definitely just me throwing out more ideas than are good for me, with no real thought into how they fit together. The DIO tales are a big misfit for everything else, and a lot of the non-series stories are just me mucking about. ^_^ Plus there's Reorg and Crashing Down; I have no idea how well they hold up.
Right, down to business. In keeping with my new standing pledge, I took a look over Agent Thoth's wiki page. I think I actually read your cowrite with Nesh, so instead I've gone back to (no surprises here, I said it in the title!) that short 'Thoth is recruited into the Thousand Sons' story you've got linked.
I like the script style of the backstory, and the way you switch to a traditional third-person view for the HQ part. It really emphasises the difference between the two sections. (As it happens, I'm rereading Ravenor right now, which has a similar switch between first and third person when Gideon stops mucking about in people's heads.) It's a little thing, but it did catch my eye.
I was going to comment that Kannan seemed a little too Thoth-like, a bit too Astartes-aloof for where he's at in his life, with lines like 'There's no shame in your lack of belief'. But then I caught the line two down from that, and realised that it's entirely deliberate: he sounds like that because he's deliberately hiding his feelings. That sets up a wonderful contrast between the two characters' methods of dealing with their separation, and it definitely comes across in the dialogue.
hS -
Thanks! by
on 2018-06-26 04:58:00 UTC
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I quite liked Reorg, in case you're curious.
Oh jeez, that story. I have... complicated feelings about it. I like it? I think? It was the first thing I got a really strong positive response on here, which I thought was Pretty Neat. Some parts feel a bit... weird, from here? I dunno.
I don't know how or if I'd write it now, but I probably wouldn't write it quite like that.
Anyways, here are some hows and whys it all happened.
This was one of Nova's first prompts, and the line was "When will I see you again?" I'd already had ideas about Thoth before being an Astartes, and that kinda sealed the deal on that, because Thoth having to leave everyone behind is pretty dang evocative image, and it was the first thing to pop into my head and I am lazy, in case you haven't noticed. Especially on prompts.
The flashback scenes came first. Originally, there wasn't going to BE a present-time scene, but then it occurred to me that it would be a good idea to ensure people know that the person in the flashback is Thoth, because it might be ambigouous. And then I decided to play up that ambiguity and lead up to a reveal—a reveal that I was pretty sure everyone would have guessed already, but a reveal all the same. Why not?
As for the style of the flashbacks... Honestly? It was an excuse for me to not write dialogue tags or describe the surroundings, as much as anything else. I'm bad at dialogue tags, and none-to-great at descriptions. But more seriously, in terms of physical description, I'm not entirely sure what the scene would look like: canon is kind vague about Prospero, and while I can make some educated guesses, there are other things I'm a bit in the dark on. So... yeah.
I had the idea of it being an audio recording or something, so I could be lazy about visualization, and because it seemed cool. Then I had the idea of jacking the style of those interludes between Graff and Anderson (and whoever else, it varied) from Ender's Game. So that's that.
As for the precise content... that has a lot less to do with Thoth or anything than where I was at the time. I'd just come out, both to the board and, really, to myself, and that whole thing was weighing on my mind a lot. So... well. That was the first thing I thought of. And I ran with it. -
About the unfamiliar canon thing by
on 2018-06-20 20:32:00 UTC
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Would it help if one of the agents was slightly less familiar with the canon so the other might have to explain more obscure details? Or another solution would be to create a sort of appendix providing a short 2 sentence summary for specific terms that people may not be familiar with. It usually doesn't detract from the mission reading experience if I'm not a fan of the canon so long as I get informed in some way of why it is a charge.
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Yep! by
on 2018-06-20 21:55:00 UTC
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It's why there's devices like the Fictionary, in-universe; even when a fic is the right division for an agent pair, that doesn't mean they have the canon knowledge! Or need to have it, as long as the mission writer is willing to do the research.
I've seen people do post-mission A/N summaries of what's wrong about a given fic's plot-points, as well (an example off the top of my head would be SkarmorySilver, as well as Herr Wozzek's missions). -
Mission length is fixable. by
on 2018-06-20 00:51:00 UTC
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The fix is to have a length limit and an end point in mind when you start writing. If you get to the end point and you've exceeded the limit by a significant amount, you go back and figure out what you need to cut. Not every joke is your best joke; not every charge is a vital one. There's always something you can afford to lose. Your beta(s) may be instrumental in helping you identify what that is.
Your end point will, of course, influence your mission length. If you're PPCing 20,000 words of fic, that's probably going to result in a longer mission than 12,000 words of fic.
More agents also tends to result in higher word counts, which is one reason two is the ideal number.
~Neshomeh
P.S. Thoth, I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that hS has an overinflated ego? {= )
Actually, I think you may be echoing something I said about myself at one point... but the rest of that comment was that I still like it, even if I don't need it. ^_~ -
Nah, I was mostly implying... by
on 2018-06-20 02:02:00 UTC
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That if I let myself go, I'd be at hS's ego until it was. Apolgies for the connotations.
Yeah, hS's was one of the first spinoffs I read, and I am... unusually enamored. -
I just haven't read many missions recently. (nm) by
on 2018-06-19 02:57:00 UTC
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Meanwhile... by
on 2018-06-18 20:05:00 UTC
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I just feel like I'm bad at criticism. And if I don't have anything to say, I don't see much point in saying it.
Of late, I've missed a lot of people's stuff between schoolwork, homework, and my own readimg and writing (Jeez, I still have a mission to work on! Paaaanic!). It is summer, so that may cool down, but OTOH, I've got a job lined up...
Also, I never really got into Ix's stuff. Just... didn't happen? I'm sorry, Ix. :-/ -
I'm not great at criticism either by
on 2018-06-18 20:17:00 UTC
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I try, a good chunk of the time? But I'm pretty sure there's a lot of issues, especially large-scale ones, I tend to miss. But I think that critiquing things is something you get better at with practice, same as with writing.
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Stress less. by
on 2018-06-20 00:20:00 UTC
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What I really want from a review is to know how the work made you feel when you read it. I want to know if you laughed or not, if you sympathized with the characters or not, if you cared or not.
That's pretty much it. I know not everyone is great at active reading—being aware of your own responses in the moment; having a sort of dialogue with the work as you read it—and that does improve with practice, but there's no special art to conveying this information once you're aware of it. The stream-of-consciousness type commentary you guys do is great for this. Please keep it up!
Technical points are great, too, but honestly, that's of secondary value. If the thing I did didn't have the impact I wanted, that's a sign to me to analyze my technique and seek more input about how I could have done it better. First and foremost: get on the couch and tell me how it makes you feel! ^_~
~Neshomeh -
^^^ This. This exactly. (nm) by
on 2018-06-20 00:35:00 UTC
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There's a good Tumblr post on leaving critique. by
on 2018-06-18 20:56:00 UTC
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Maybe I'll try to dig it out. It did look helpful for providing starting points and I think also explaining what kind of feedback (positive or constructive) authors would love to get.
~Z, very tired after a good but exhausting day -
Sorry about that... by
on 2018-06-17 21:25:00 UTC
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I must confess I haven't read Blank Sprite. I've wanted to, but there's always been something else to read and I was honestly intimidated by the length.
...OTOH, I don't noticed the drama quite so much. Maybe because I do my best to stay out of it, Maybe for other reasons.
Ah well.
I wish things could have worked out differently. You seem like a cool guy, and I wish I'd been able to get to know you better.