Subject: Surviving!
Author:
Posted on: 2021-05-23 17:57:35 UTC
Work isn't getting much better on the "dominating every waking moment of life" front, and I haven't had time to write in forever, but uh.
Uh.
I'm glad you're doing well!
—doctorlit, over-sharing
..Well, okay. Not 84. But by Bast, it has been almost twenty since I joined the first time.
Er. Hi? Love what you've done with the place! I did debate over posting like an official hello, and this is not a "Well I'm back!" by any means, but it is more like a "Well, I'm alive, still, wow, I just of disappeared, didn't I?" I might just... drop by from time to time and lurk.
For those that don't know, I am Ekwy, I came on the Board back in the long-long ago times of 2002, wrote a couple PPC Missions in the HP MS Division, went on two very early London Gatherings (hi hS!), wrote (and never finished) the Offical Fanfiction University of Cats, and then I got distracted by something shiny for nearly two decades. My departure was not with a bang but with a whimper. (I think I got really into RPing at Hogwarts Hocus, not sure how many people here remember THAT place.) I was sort of tangentially aware of the PPC still being around and found the thought pretty comforting, but I hadn't been writing much fanfiction at all and was more of the mindset that I'd focus on... I dunno, "real" writing. And then 2020 happened, which we must not dwell on, and my writing just... stopped. And I was miserable. And it really was remembering fanfction that brought me out of it. It made me remember that oh yeah, I like this, this is fun, and it doesn't have to be perfect or sellable or anything like that, it can just be what it is and that is wonderful!
And then I found Neshomeh on Ao3 by clicking on the Phantom of the Opera tag (god, I love Ao3, it is the most bananas place on the Internet and no one can tell me it isn't) and noticed that "wait, Protectors of the Plot Continuum is a TAG that people USE?" and THAT tumbled me down the Wiki rabbit hole, and you guys have ARCHIVED me and my stupid little stories, and it's all still THERE, and I was tearing up reading it! You GUYS. I am SO impressed by this tremendous effort, and I really just wanted to stop by and let you know how much I appreciate you. The PPC was so important to me. I met my best friend in the PPC. It was the driving force behind me developing my English, because I wanted to write better missions. I still have people in my life that I wouldn't have without the PPC. It has literally shaped me.
And I wanted you to know that. <3
...it's full of nostalgia! Hi all!
I'm coming in super late--got an email from Neshomeh about a month ago (!) and then life, as is its wont, ate me. But I did want to come say hi! I recognize half a dozen names immediately, and a whole bunch of you joined long after I left (I vaguely wandered off in around 2006 or 2007, I think) and I'm mildly gobsmacked that this community still exists. Wow! I used to post as NenyaQuende (with an agent called Nenya and another called Quen, the PPC Secretary), and have gone by Nenya or nenya_kanadka for the last...uh...yep, time has no meaning! XD
The PPC was why I joined LiveJournal back in the day, and tangentially how I met my wife. (I don't know if any of you know Muccamukk; she wasn't in the PPC itself, but we're pretty sure she knew Acacia from another fandom and so we ended up in the same LJ circles. Which led to a real-life friendship, then dating, then marriage, then a cat... So far no plague, but one set of shots for it. <3)
I have to agree with others in this megathread that I have both wonderfully fond memories of the PPC as it was circa 2002-03 and a bit of retroactive cringe. :P It was one of the first places online where my deeply awkward, socially inept self actually felt like part of things for once, and the jokes and wordplay and clever foolishness mixed with earnest love for nerdy stuff are still the kind of thing that makes me happy. At the same time, I look back at my younger self, and wow, I was a judgemental jerk when it came to other people's fanfiction! (And not as great at either writing or literary analysis as I thought.) I've had to come to terms with the fact that some of what we did hurt people (even though I know it could have been worse, and I really appreciate that we tried not to troll people); I'm not proud of that, and I hope the PPC of today is heavier on the clever nerdery and lighter on the judgement. <3
At the end of the day, my time in the PPC was pivotal for me, and you all still have a piece of my heart. Thank you for being there, fellow oldbies, with your Morale Officering and Sufficiently Advanced Technology and Bast-Worship. Thank you, too, for being somewhere where my homophobic and generally sheltered upbringing was gently challenged. That mattered. I can't tell you how utterly delighted I am to find out that several of you are trans (I'm agender/nonbinary and bisexual and poly, as it turns out, not the cis straight girl I assumed!) and not even slightly surprised that I'm not the only queer alumnus.
Oh! One more thing to add to this epic novella I seem to be typing: for those of you who remember Philosopher At Large/bellatrys, who hosted the old board at one point--I heard from her a few months ago and she's still alive & kicking, and even writing a bit. <3 Not sure she's in fandom as such at the moment, but she lives!
<3
I'm glad you got my email. Thanks for stopping by!
I may have told you this the last time we talked, but your FicPsych story was inspirational to me, and is still one of my favorites. It's a foundational example of the kind of wacky fandom-intersectional shenanigans that make the PPC such a fun setting to write in. <3
And yes: when it comes to missions, I like to think we are both kinder and gentler these days, maintaining a focus on entertaining literary critique and not attacking people. We have striven to keep this a community of Nice Folks who happen to be nerdy about language use, among other things.
This thread highlights that we have also consistently been pretty darn queer on the whole, which I suspect is not a coincidence. Not gonna try to analyze it here, though, heh. We'd be here all day. Maybe all week.
Nice to see you again. I must remember to drop by your AO3 profile more often—I quite liked your Bashir/Garak fic "A Hard Landing," which I just realized I never left kudos on or anything. Fixing that now!
~Neshomeh
Aw thank you! That feels so weird and so cool to hear, that you got something out of something I wrote about a squillion years ago. :D I really loved writing it! I think the parts of the stories set in HQ were usually my favourite PPC writings, just because of that wacky earnest-yet-ridiculous aspect, with its meta-commentary on story tropes about secret societies and workplace politics and fandom and all. And just the worldbuilding! The silly, weird, wild, creative, cockeyed worldbuilding. :D
I've read a couple of published works since then that hit a similar note for me--the Thursday Next books by Jasper Fforde and more recently the Invisible Library by Genevieve Cogman. I'm sure they're not the only ones out there. (I'm not sure the delightfully batshit nature of something like PPC worldbuilding is possible without the dynamic we had where multiple people are essentially roleplaying and coming up with different bits of it--it was an experience as much as a corpus of fiction--but still.)
(Do you guys have the full text of the FicPsych story anywhere? Someone, I think Araeph, sent me the files ages ago after Geocities went down, so I do have it in case you don't and want it for archival purposes.)
I could swear I'd run into you, Neshomeh, on AO3 sometime in the last 84 years, but I also suspect that I didn't remember why your name felt so familiar--just that it did. :D Squee, I'm glad you liked the Garak/Bashir flashfic too!
We must have talked on the Board, but I mostly remember you from LJ... hi! It's great to see you. :) And doubly great to hear you're doing so well!
for those of you who remember Philosopher At Large/bellatrys, who hosted the old board at one point--I heard from her a few months ago and she's still alive & kicking, and even writing a bit.
This is an incredibly cruel tease. >:( I just last month reread P@L's epic Leithian Script, and fell into the usual despair that she came so close but never quite finished it. And now you taunt me with 'she's still writing - but not fandom'. Alas, I say, alas and woe!
hS
I do remember that we ran into each other on LJ (and possibly more recently on DW?), though I have been absolutely terrible in the last few years about keeping up with my journal or friends' list, alas. Definitely remember you from the old Board, and you had a PPC-related website with a lot of green in the page design...? I know for a fact that I got my LJ because a couple PPCers had, back when LJ was cutting-edge social media, about six centuries ago. :D
The Leithian Script! What a work of art that was. I just dug around in my office and found the spiral-bound, inch-thick version P@L gave me in the summer of 2006. I checked and it only has the first two acts! I can't remember at this point if I knew whether she'd written more than that or not, but your link has four acts and I'm almost sure I've never read them all. So cool! Thank you.
I don't know what names or identities she wants linked, or even what all she's writing these days, but yeah, like you I'd be delighted if we ever got more of her writing. She's tremendously talented and her writing back in the day (both fiction and blogging) made just a huge impression on me. One of those things (like the queerness of the PPC and fic fandom as a whole) that in retrospect was genuinely lifechanging.
Hi Ekwy! Hi everyone! I am Araeph, formerly Department of Technical Errors and resident PPC infidel. It has been so long, but I wanted to stop by and say thank you to this community for their intelligence, kindness and good humor. It was the DTE that gave me the impetus to apply to an editorial assistant position in the real world, which has led me to the career I have now. Viewing media through a constructively critical lense has made me a better reader and writer, and having a strong social network online helped me socialize in the real world. I owe some of my dearest friendships to you intrepid Sue slayers, and I can't wait to see what you've done with the place!
HI! Holy fuck, it's been ages. <3
You used our one swear for the month. I won't be able to talk about 50 Shades of Gray for another 30 days...
I loved Mara and Isaiah’s missions! Actually, I remember running into the sporking of that weird Redwall one about two years before I joined? That was my second run in with the PPC, the first was one of Laburnum’s very NSFW MSTs XD
You are the person I wanted to be when I grew up! {= D Didn't quite make it into editing, because the publishing industry is high-pressure and scary, but these days I am doing linguistic annotations to help teach AI to be better at English, and I feel right at home there (when the deadlines are reasonable, anyway). The PPC definitely set me up for this. ^_^
Zingenmir and I actually have a PotC crossover mission in the works, and are including Logic Loopholes in honor of the DTE. Also, a Misspelled Monkey called Flying Dutchmen features heavily to annoy our characters even more.
I almost had Lady Contrivance show up in my most recent mission, too. Ended up cutting that bit because it was a one-off gag and I needed up step up the pacing, but the thought was there!
Your influence lives on. ^_^
~Neshomeh
I don't think we've interacted before, but when I first joined as a newbie your DTE missions were some of the first I read. It's actually what made me want to mission at least one Pirates of the Caribbean fic—and I did, and it was every bit of fun I thought it would be, so thank you for the inspiration and the excellent missions.
I was clicking through hS's archives the other day, may have stumbled into GreyLadyBast's old temple and found your stick figure. (I chose to smite you with Cunning Arguments, sorry about that.) Er. Did I... summon you? Nah. No, that's not how this works. Is it? ...No. That just... it seems really unlikely. It's just one of those weird random coinkidinks. Right?
Right.
Uh. Good to see you!
You know what they say: think of the infidel, and she will appear!
And good to see you too. Apologies for the late reply ... on a short vacation and cell service is spotty.
I also now make a living out of correcting kids' English essays and I have the PPC to thank for that, haha.
I don't recall if we talked very often? But I definitely kept tabs on you on Tumblr. You posted a lot about ATLA haha!
Nice to see you around these parts again!
I remember you a little, though when you joined I had become more of a lurker. And yes, my tumblr is mostly about ATLA, and I should revive it because as far as I know, the live action is still upcoming.
Good to see you too!
It's great to see you again!
I've changed my screen name since then, but back in 2013 when I went by DawnFire, you both talked to (excited newbie!)me on AIM and also, unless my memory is seriously glitching, were actually the one to approve my Permission request. I'm still here!
Anyway, it really is great to see your name again, and I hope you have a good time while you're back here!
~Z, formerly ~DF
Not So Different After All?
It's harder for me to keep track when people change their usernames, but I think I have a chat log from DawnFire way back when. Poor AIM, you have gone to a better place.
Glad I was able launch your PPC career, haha. And it's great to see so many familiar "faces"!
It's great to see you. :D I don't remember whether I knew before that you'd become an actual Real World red pen wielder, but I'm absolutely delighted to hear it. ^_^
hS
It's great to see you too. I have only been able to visit London again once since our PPC meet-up, and that was a 12-hour layover at Heathrow during which I snuck out to see the British Museum. Hope things are going well across the pond.
And yes, I did editing for several years before getting into the production side of things, but I now work for a small press in Boston. I blame the PPC for everything!
Hi! Neshomeh gave me a poke and so I thought I'd give a wave. I joined in 2011, and peeked back in a few times since I left. 2019 the last time I said hi, I think? I got into writing for the Lucifer fandom and now have switched over to The Witcher fandom. Anyway, I'm alive. Nice to see you all.
God, I remember when I was a newbie to the PPC, I was tickled pink that you'd estimated my age as several decades older than my then-high school-aged self.
...And now, as of yesterday I've submitted my last assignment for university and am waiting to graduate. :)
So that's what I've been up to! It's been a while—how have you been? :D Saw your oldest has had a fair few birthdays, haha.
Congratulations on graduating!
Oh yeah, my boys are 13, 20, and 21 now. So hard to believe! They were 2, 9, and 10 when I first joined up. (pre vs post birthdays for the two sets of years).
Good to see you again. ^_^
I think we chatted a bit about Lucifer the last time you came by. I just looked it up and saw that season 5, part 2 comes out in two days! I'm so hyped! {= D
~Neshomeh
And I'm late again. I still haven't watched the new season. A friend of mine dragged me into Witcher fandom last summer, and we've been writing away ever since.
How are you doing lately?
I missed you, and it's great to hear from you again! Hope you and the whole family are doing well!
—doctorlit
We're all pretty good. Can you believe my oldest can legally drink now? How have you been?
Work isn't getting much better on the "dominating every waking moment of life" front, and I haven't had time to write in forever, but uh.
Uh.
I'm glad you're doing well!
—doctorlit, over-sharing
So, um: Hi! * sits awkwardly at computer wondering what else to write *
I can't remember when I was last active here (in fact, technically I don't think I have been active here - just on the old board), but I'm sure it's been at least a few years. How old is this New Board now? I'm guessing old enough that it's not referred to as the 'new board' anymore :)
It's cool to see a mix of old familiar names and brand new ones, and that this place is still going strong. Good to see you all again / for the first time (delete as appropriate).
-Irish
It's great to see you. :D Your name brings back memories of... er... pretty much the last time I got a decent productivity streak going. I still remember all those conversations about PPC-adjacent organisations... good times. :)
hS
Ah, productivity - after a year of working from home, and whiling my evenings away on youtube, I'm not sure I know what that word means anymore!
I also remember those conversations (thanks to your prompting). I had some fairly ambitious plans at one point. Plans which may now be thwarted by the fact that I don't seem to have anything PPC related saved on my current computer.
So I guess now I have a new plan: Step 1) dig through cupboards to find old hard drives Step 2) dig through old hard drives to see what data I can pull from them Step 3) profit??? (I don't know; I might be missing some steps there)
But I have a plan. That's kind of productive, right?
-Irish
And sorry for not saying so sooner. I have to admit, my introvert brain is struggling with all this interaction after the week or so it's been going on. ^_^;
Very good to hear from you, though, as always!
~Neshomeh
Thanks for letting me know this was going on; it's good to be back here (if it can be considered being 'back here' given that the board I was last on was a different board... but, whatever, that's just semantics).
I think I get where you're coming from with regards to being overwhelmed by the thought of social interaction - after all, it took me something like 4 days to work out how to say 'Hi, I'm here again' so, yeah, no worries :)
-Irish
I'm actually surprised by how little reading I've done this past year. When lockdown first started I assumed that be my go-to source of entertainment / staying sane, but I seem to have spent most of my time just watching stuff on youtube. It's kept me occupied, but it does feel like a bit of wasted opportunity.
Hope you've been doing alright too.
-Irish
Moved back to the US after a very long lockdown in London, and I'm about to graduate with a BA (Hons) in film practice. Started sending out job applications today... yesterday? (It's past midnight, I'll say yesterday.) Still feels surreal.
Glad you've been alright, even if you're feeling unproductive. Hopefully things pick up for you soon. :)
I remember beta-reading your Red Dwarf mission ages ago! =]
Wow, that was ages ago - I barely remember writing it! Thanks again for your help with that.
I'm sure I have completely forgotten about a bunch of stuff. I do, however, recall one of your agents: Doktor Trollenfisch (did have to check the wiki to avoid creating a mini). The specifics escape me, but the fact that the name stuck in my head is probably an indication that I thought they were particularly fun and/or interesting :)
-Irish
He's a neon-pink talking pufferfish who plays the sousaphone and speaks in an extremely fake German accent.
His partner is a cute red bunny rabbit who can breathe fire.
They work in the Department of WhatThe.
Set a thief, y'know... =]
Welcome back! Have a mini snek. They come with hats.
my GOSH look at everyone!!! ....ok my brain is a fried egg and I haven't actually read all the threads but oh my gosh it's so good to see so many familiar faces usernames and uh have the option to go back and read everything. I had no idea this was still running! I took a look at the Philly get together and I can't believe how baby we were.
EDIT: oh I should do some reminisching or remembering huh Uh I joined back in....high school times? 2001, 2002, I only really remember participating on the boards in two specific computer labs at school. Yeah I'm 33 now and my pronouns include she/he/ey. I don't remember my Agents ;; teenager years are a blur, yo.
offers a mini snek They come with hats!
I LOVE A MINI SNEK! AND A HAT!!!!!
gives the traditional gift for ancientbies, a sword-cane
It's been approximately forever since the old times- I was once Techno-Dann, back when the world was young. And then life happened! Alas for my teenage agents, they were loved and they were outgrown and a couple of them helped point me towards who I am now.
Grabs sword cane and runs around with it before I am stopped
AHh yes the OCs of yore. I've worked out many a personal realiziation with them. What else is rp for???? Also it's so good to see you, and congratulations!!!!!! ^_^ (oh man but it's been a millino years since I busted out that face)
Or should you just be Dragon now? :D Or maybe you've levelled up to a class - Dragon Sage, Dragon Warrior, something like that?
... but as has been agreed, time has no meaning and we're all in our early 20s still, so Dragonlet it is.
Hi! Philly was so much fun. :D Didn't you get dragged up on stage in the museum for some reason?
hS
lol that implies I've studied hard to pass Sage certification, I am but a little creeture still.
SOMEONE ended up on stage, I forget who! I remember you planning on stealing the liquid nitrogen.
And in a certain sense I succeeded: I spent 2011-12 working in a lab where we had an R2D2-sized thing filled with liquid nitrogen, and "never" "played around" with it. >:D
hS
So, thanks to you for starting this thread, and thanks to Neshomeh for prodding me.
I joined in 2013 at age 59, being not the coolest, but probably the oldest newbie ever.
For several years, whenever it came up, I had to confess that I read about zero books per year, because I was too busy reading everything PPC and commenting on the Board. Then I found out how to use a public library card to read e-books online for free, so now my excuse for not being around anymore is that I’m too busy reading about two books per week. I’m not sure whether and when I’ll get out of this frenzy again.
HG
Books are certainly worth being in an extended frenzy for.
offers a mini snek They come with hats!
What’s a – oh, it’s a small snake with a hat, apparently from a word world I don’t know. But is it a spelling Mini?
HG
I'm glad to see your name again. What with the pandemic's demographics, I had faint concerns that I didn't want to think about too hard, and am pleased I probably don't have to think about it at all now.
I suppose we can't be too surprised to hear the Archivist's Apprentice got lost in the library. ^_^ Find anything especially good in the depths?
~Neshomeh
Not having to go to public places to get my weekly dose of literature is quite convenient these days.
I don’t remember whether Ben Aaronovitch’s Peter Grant series was ever mentioned on the Board. Detective Chief Magician Inspector Nightingale and his apprentice, PC (and PoC) Peter Grant, are the weird-stuff-department of the London Metropolitan Police. They investigate cases which should not happen in a world as we know it, involving ghosts, fae, river gods, unregistered practitioners of magic … (there are agreements dating back to the seventeenth century to keep all this hidden from the mundane public). I don’t feel compelled to do the deep analysis I did (and may still be doing) for Harry Potter, but these are probably books I’ll want to read more than once.
HG
I think the pandemic has definitely been less hard on us introverts. I'm finding the prospect of getting back out into the world and dealing with people again way more daunting than a year of staying away. ^_^;
Ooh, those books sound fun. Thanks for the recommendation!
~Neshomeh
I totally blame July for this.
But yeah, since it's reunion time...
Been around between October 2011 and March 2017. Left in... less than savoury circumstances, and probably not coming back. But nonetheless it's nice to see some of the people here - especially since some of the names make me feel like a newbie again... Yeah.
I feel like I should have been able to make a 'desdenello' joke, but it's a bit too opaque. desdhello?
hS
Hey Des! Don't worry to much about all the new names. A lot of us are still around, though mostly on the Discord.
holy heck look at all the returnbies showing up
I get you probably not coming back, but it's good to see you again. How are things with you?
offers mini sneks They come with hats!
ahem apologies.
Hello to everyone who is returning! It's so great to see so many names coming back, even if it is just for this one thread. I used to go by Storme Hawk when I joined back in 2013, and I used to be a lot more active on the Board so I think I might have interacted with a few of you who had been around then. It's kind of amazing to see people who's names I've known because of reading your stuff coming back and actually being here, so sorry if I appear a little starstruck or weird(er than normal).
This! Is! Happening!
Nova.
Or at least your name rings a bell! Fancy seeing you here again!
Not very long ago at all, Neshomeh and I finally found the Holy Grail of PPC archiving. Buried somewhere in the Wayback Machine and lovingly restored by me:
The original PPC Prologue on Fanfiction.net
No chapters, no reviews, not even the author profile - but if you ever saw TOS before the Takedown, I figure this might hit you right in the nostalgia.
(Heck, if you were even on FFn back in the day, the design might do it all by itself...!)
hS
This is. This is incredible.
Hi to everyone who's resurfacing! I used to go by DawnFire (been a Boarder since 2013, but was reading much earlier), which might be more familiar to the...very small handful of you I think I might have said hi to in the past. This is very exciting. I don't quite know what to say. Welcome, even if it's just for this one thread! I...literally grew up reading either what you wrote or knowing your handles for one reason or another, so I'm...well, as you see I'm flailing a bit. I'll get past it when I've had more than twenty minutes to process how many more people have now shown up.
~Z, offering virtual pizza
2007, foolishly begot the wiki, one version of the IRC, few years of censuses, the Longest Gathering, winner of most crowds with pitchforks and torches, etc etc.
I've got a cane these days and I know how to use it.
For those who want to get in contact with me, I'm on discord, July#4786. If I'm wanting to be in contact with you back, I suppose we will find out. :P
(And preemptively, this is not a return except for this thread, and all of my things have been removed or are in the process of getting scrubbed.)
Writing? Plotting?
hS works miracles, it seems! Nice to see you here, if just for one thread. {= )
~Neshomeh
There was certainly some back and forth involved. : )
Still writing?
*points up-Board and down-Board*
I keep telling myself I'm going to continue my Skyrim fic one of these days, too, but the first dragon fight intimidates me and I'm still working on getting over it!
I know you've been writing fic, too, which is awesome. I just wish it were in a fandom I know better. ^_^;
~Neshomeh
Even with the fear there. u_u
As for fandom things, well, it's not as hard on the canonblind as you may worry?
Hi, July! I remember reading your co-write with Trojie back when I was doing nothing but lurking on the wiki. (Longest Gathering?)
Was exactly what it says on the tin. A week-long vacation of PPCers in one vacation rental. Me, FractalDawn, Araeph, Artell, Phobos, Neshomeh, along with other PPCers who lived in the DC area at the time.
Unfortunately, I joined in pandemic times, and also, my parents would never allow it. But it sounds great starts wondering if that’s what the OYAN workshop will be like
To wait a few years until you're in your twenties and fully self-ambulatory. (Like we all were).
I still like to peek in now and again and lurk.
I get the feeling. It was kinda wild to find that Suedom had a page on the wiki too, so same hat, but I think all the places it was posted are defunct now. Juliet and I have one of the only copies bc I saved it on "full story" from lotrfanfiction.net.
And hidden away is where it will stay bc Andy and I look back on it and it is equal parts nostalgic fondness (since writing that is how we bonded as besties with a 20 year friendship come this September) and also full body cringe lmfao.
It's nice to see a few familiar faces.
I'm now over the shock of seeing your names again enough to say hi!
Can we still look forward to a Real Original Novel inspired by Suedom someday? Or is it already out there, and have I just embarrassed myself by revealing my ignorance? ^_^
~Neshomeh
The original-version Suedom is very much a backburner work in progress, but don't let that fool you into thinking we don't have stuff on the front burners as well. For a little while there, Saphie and I lived together in Alaska where we started working on a YA cosmic horror fantasy series set in a creepy small Alaska town, and I'm pretty sure that'll be the first original project that we end up finishing.
We did write three whole fanfiction novels (for Rise of the Guardians) that are so much better paced than Suedom (not hard to do) so we know we can churn out a book or three, but we both have our own projects at the forefront right now so its just always a matter of time and energy. Saphie's got her Evil Boarding School book, which is already SO funny and good. You guys have no idea how worth the wait it's going to be.
Meanwhile I'm applying 4th draft edits to my book, a dystopian future YA novel about kids racing dragons to escape a late-stage capitalist hellhole, with the intention of self-publishing by December of this year. In the extremely NOT ya genre, another friend and I drafted a really smutty gay romance novel over quarantine, because we really needed the endorphins, and I'd like to self-publish that one before the year's out too. So Original Version Suedom will happen, but there's a whole lot of other projects in the works as well.
I'm always so happy when people remember Suedom fondly. The process of writing it absolutely changed my life for the better. I just can't get cringey over it, when it let me connect with so many cool people.
It's definitely the most solidly world built and plotted.
It's just slow going. Juliet and I kind of have a sense of when that needs to be written and I definitely don't think it'll be our first cowritten thing. We have other stuff planned.
But we do have plans.
Right now I'm focusing most on a book I'm cowriting with my other bestie about a group of kids in the remedial class of a supervillain school, who all suck at supervillainy, having to become reluctant heroes to save the world from a massive apocalyptic threat.
The school is all about that Megamind style of villainy. "You're a villain alright but not a super one." "What's the difference?" "[flares cape] PRESENTATION!"
I forgot I wanted to tell people but
The original Suedom idea is going to be a story about two women who used to be close and bonded over a Lotr style fantasy novel as teens and wrote a fanfic together about being pulled into the fantasy world and saving it from Mary Sues. Their families moved apart and they lost touch, only to reunite later as slightly disenfranchised adults whose lives haven't really gone the way they hoped.
One of them binds the old fanfic in an actual book as a cute gift for the other, styling the cover like something from the fantasu world, but their fond reminiscing is interrupted by the story's equivalent of the Nazgul chasing them in the real world and one of the lead characters of the fantasy novel dragging them through a portal telling the they're needed to save the story's world again. They realize the fanfic's adventure was real, their memories of the adventure were magically removed when they were sent back home as teens, and they wrote the fanfic as a subconscious reflection of what happened to them.
They have to use the book with the fic as a guide to what they did on the old adventure but it's hilariously terrible, full of lol random humor, and occasionally dead wrong. Over time they gradually remember what actually happened.
So the book has four elements interwoven: snippets and quotes they say from the Lotr style book that they loved as teens (which has to sound epic enough to inspire a fandom as big as Lotr's), the present adventure they're undertaking, the real memories of the past adventure they gradually get back, and the occasional pieces of their old, fairly terrible fanfic they're using to retrace their steps and figure out why they didn't successfully beat the bad guy last time.
It is A Lot so we're not even trying to tackle it yet before putting out other books first to get better as authors. Aside from Suedom, it's heavily inspired by a comic series, The Unwritten.
. . . I would love if you guys swung back here as you publish future novels, so that I can pay you money! And also read them!
—doctorlit of the one-track tunnel vision mind
We'd love to have some of the old gang along for the ride as we create new stuff.
Please feel free to plug your Real World accomplishments to us if you are comfortable doing so. We want to bask in your glory and also give you money if we can! {= D
~Neshomeh
I'm weeping :_;
How are you? It's so nice to see so many familiar names.
Suedom was amazing; I distinctly remember posting a review on the guestbook attached to one version of it. I... think I may have written a dodgy filk about it? That sounds like me. See? It was an inspiration!
(Don't think you can just let it vanish, though; I've cobbled together an archive copy, though So Far I've not posted it anywhere. >:D)
It's so great to see you here! You've popped in enough times that I'm just about not intimidated by your legendary stature.
hS
I'm glad people look back on it with fondness. It definitely was like this positive experience because it let us interact with lots of cool people. I still remember that part of it fondly.
You two! accusing finger I was racking my brain to try and figure out why the word Suedom was so insanely familiar to me before I looked it up on the Wiki. No wonder I remembered the title all these years later! It is a CLASSIC and I remember being incredibly awed by the scope of it and thought that all the BNFs that were in it were just the coolest people alive. I was also WAY too intimidated by the mythical glow of Saph & Andy (who WROTE it, can you even imagine WRITING a masterpiece like that? boggles the MIND) to even begin to approach you to tell you about it, so I'm telling you now!
But yeah, I get it. I am currently in the midst of reading some of my own old stuff and I want to tie myself into a knot and sink under the surface of an underwater brine lake from cringe.
I wound up going to college and grad school for writing, so while I'm nostalgic about it, stylistically it's very much a curl up and die scenario for me, though Juliet has no shame lmfao.
It's very rough compared to things we've written recently, including other fanfic. We have this whole epic trilogy of Rise of the Guardian fanfics we're really proud of it, and still proud of years after writing them.
I'm still fond of that time in my life though.
Speak for yourself I lack all shame. No cringe only forgiving nostalgia.
I'll be ashamed of our fandom sins for the both of us so you can skip along light and free.
I'm glad you did though - it wouldn't be right seeing one of you without the other. ^_~
hS
I think we also briefly talked one time you checked in on the Board. ~2008 or 2009, maybe? Suedom was one of my first introductions to the PPC and it still has a bit of an impact on me these days even if it's full body cringe (and I know that feeling too re: my older works haha). Glad to see you drop by!
(I say, also dropping by)
I too come from the wave of 2002-ish, I believe around Halloween time. If not, my math is wrong, and that is not surprising! I dwelt Somewhere Upwards in the ceiling, and as I did then, I bring paperclip cookies to share.
It's amazing how time has passed! To see all these old screen names again takes my breath away, and all the new ones too! I couldn't stay away and not say hello!
Don't think we ever met before. Just wanted to mention that M'rrahr has a successor now! Fr'sst isn't quite as wizardly, or nearly as friendly, but I liked your idea of having a kitchen cat, and made a new one to harass the eating agents.
. . . And I was going to link to a story he appears in, but he really doesn't get much screen time, and it would be awkward to make you read through paragraphs of my other characters just to see him so uh . . . let's just leave it at that, I guess!
—doctorlit, cat person
I'm so happy M'rrahr has a successor! There should always be a kitchen cat, I think.
I never managed to write a full story, just a kitchen interlude, and some DCPS things that are lost to LJ purges, so I am most impressed.
Trailing around after hawky, as usual. Uh. Sup. What are we doing here, saying what we did? I don't remember, its been...19 years? I'm an adult now!! I just turned 30.
I'm gonna let that sink in for some of you that knew me when I was 12/13 and obnoxious.
I did a lot of questionable anime kid drawings and attempts at writing that I think Hawky has terrifying archives of. I did find some of it on decades old notebook paper last week! Fate is strange.
Uhhhhh also I'm a dude now
heyyy
Almost missed this one.
You are not 30, that's not allowed. As per somewhere down-thread, we are all twenty-somethings forever. {; P
Also, I will never not love the old drawings for the sheer nostalgia factor. ^_^
~Neshomeh
<333 hi nesh! you'll always have my deviantart, I am pretty sure I lost the password years ago...
offers a mini snek They come with hats!
i'll add that to the absurd amount of pets hawky lets me fill the house with
Congrats on adulting! Here's your sword-cane, good for shaking at newbies.
And seriously, congrats on discovering yourself. I made the same journey the other way (I was once Techno-Dann), and I know there's a few other trans PPCers here or out in the great beyond.
genderswap
ill see myself out
... that I'm now picturing the two of you high-fiving as you cross the bridge over the Gender Divide? {= )
~Neshomeh
There's a disclaimer that goes here to the tune of gender not being a binary, and so the idea of a single divide with a bridge across it is perhaps not the best model thereof, but it is a lovely mental image nonetheless. :)
I don't think your maths can be right though, because that would make me [Counts on fingers] NOPE.
hS
You were always in my active friends list on AIM! I have no idea how many times in my life I have read your name, but it is a lot. And now I am reading it again! This is so exciting!
Losing AIM was so sad, because it was just like losing seeing people walk in the neighborhood, and simultaneously losing the ability to call someone from years ago if you want. And I was on it every day for years, seeing people like you too! Hello! It's good to see you! I suspect we have facebook friends in common!
All this talk about AIM is making me wonder if we need an oldbies discord. Like a phone rolodex. So we can continue to see each other in passing daily.
I'll endorse your skill of Snark if you endorse mine of Setting Stuff On Fire (But Not In A Bad Way)...
hS
Practical problem-solving with improvised solutions! It's what we need!
"If I had a problem, I'd throw a Molotov at it, and boom! I'd have a different problem!" -- the wisdom of Jiangyu.
.. you haven't used enough of them
Please, please, there's something I've always wanted to ask you: why do you live in the ceiling?! It's like the only thing I remember and I've always wondered! Was it just more comfortable? Did you like the vantage point? Did you have a secret Victorian mansion hidden up there? Enquiring minds want to know!
hS
The answer to the ancient question must be revealed...
Take yourself back to a wilder time, a much more populated time, a time of cookie fights, and wild trolls, when at one time I think we nearly got the census up to 50? 75? higher? Are those numbers real, or did I misremember them?
I absolutely live in the ceiling for the high vantage point. The better to drop from, or glomp, or throw cookies. Somewhere Upwards, as it goes, is mostly the space amongst the rafters, reaching between the Board and the old bravenet chat, which was a malleable place at the time. There are untold trap doors to drop out of, and I nest up here in a sea of cushions and paperclips, like the bird I'm named after. Maybe I should have picked a crow?
(Don't ask me why I distributed paperclip-shaped items, specifically; that one I don't know.)
I always thought Somewhere Upward was the space above the Lounge. If it's the space above the Board, too, do they exist on top of each other, in some sort of phase-shifted parallel realities, or if you travel through Somewhere Upward far enough from one, do you somehow end up in the other? When do you start being upside down? Or rather, when do you stop?? {= O
~Neshomeh's mind is blown.
Somewhere Upwards is definitely above the Lounge, and to my knowledge used to connect to the ceiling above the Board, though I haven't done a lot of traveling the rafters lately. I used to call them the same thing, though, and it is how I would travel to the Lounge most often. In my opinion, you end up a bit more sideways than upside-down. :D
Does this mean I no longer have to keep a couple of cushions in the attic in case you happen to pass through?
hS
Zita let me know what was up lol. Thanks for telling her to tell me.
How have you been?
I'm glad you got the message!
I've been doing pretty well! Up to my elbows in bookbinding and yarn, these days. Hanging out with B. I think about you off and on, wonder how you're doing, and what you're up to!
I wound up going to college and grad school for writing. I used to be a pharmacy tech but now my day job has to do with accounting.
I've been writing on the side and have a horror novella finished and just in need of edits and a few rewrites and am a few chapters into writing a novel about a supervillain school with my other bestie.
Fic-wised Juliet (Andy's new handle) and I wrote another fanfic series that got a fairly big reception for Rise of the Guardians fandom, called the Guardian of Screwing Up, but we haven't really been super active in the fic sphere in years because we've been trying to get original writing off the ground.
Juliet actually has a few first draft novels ready to go that just need some edits and rewrites so she's farther along.
*tackleglomp* I have a question for you! I've thought so many times about firing up AIM to see if anybody is still on there, but, well, clearly I didn't. It's a very small, not that important question. But, while you're here: do you still have pictures and/or remember what these kids from here look like? There's an LJ link to where there was an icon back then, but that icon doesn't seem to exist anymore?
Anyway, hi! How's it going? Still doing yarn? Any chance the Blayzedude is right behind you, as is tradition? ^_^
~Neshomeh
glomp! I am sad to inform you, AIM has died. As has Yahoo. And ICQ. And MSN. It's been a rough last few years for messengers. Man, was I sad to loose my AIM contact list, and stop waving to my PPC buddies.
And I can help with what those kiddos look like, actually! Though I do not have a photo to share. Aimee and Mas were both delicate-featured blonde human kids, and Jai I believe... is a grunge-goth seven year-old. I'd judge myself, but nah. Even remembering who the character Remedy was, on the other hand, that took a gosh darn minute.
And hi! Yes! I am still doing yarn, and now books! And Blayzedude is still here, as always!
I knew Yahoo was pretty much dead—tried recovering my account a while back and was able to log in, but none of my message history was left. Didn't know about the rest, though. I... guess I'm okay with it, since I haven't used AIM or MSN in forever, and I still have lots of logs saved, but still, wow. I guess Discord did 'em in, huh? (On which note: Neshomeh#0990 if you're on there.)
Thanks for the descriptions! I think I guessed they were blond(e), but it's also good to know/remember that Ilraen-in-human-morph comes by his willowy build honestly. ^_^
Oooh, book-binding, huh? Very cool!
*waves hi to Blayze!*
~Neshomeh
P.S. Asterisks can be used with a backslash ( \ ) in front to stop them making stuff italics. Because Tradition.
Oh, thanks for the asterisks tip, that's a lifesaver!
Blayze has made his own way here today, up there somewhere. *waves vaguely that way*
Honestly, I'm just happy I've been able to remember so much from nearly twenty years ago, when I can barely remember last week! o_o
I wonder how many more old farts will turn up around here before this blows over...
I mean, remembering some of the censuses, it could be a lot. laughs Though there's some of the further flung ones that I lost as we slowly left livejournal that I'd love to see again...
Welcome back returnbie! offers a mini snek
It has been approximately forever, and welcome back! The waves of oldbies showing back up always bring me joy, especially when it's people from all the way back at the dawn of things.
It's nice to see you! How are you doing? I used to see your username toward the top of my AIM window every time I signed in, before it went kerplunkt.
It has been approximately forever! Let's see here. I got accepted to college, graduated college, got a job (software engineering), got a couple cool hobbies (rock climbing, aerial silks, snowboarding), got a shiny new gender, quit my job (because Amazon turned into a terrible place to work), got a cooler job (I'm working at Bungie now!), didn't catch the plague, and have written something like a half-million words of fiction in the process. It's been a ride!
In case you haven't seen it yet, the Lounge replacement of the decade is Discord, on which I am Delta#1353!
That sounds amazing! And very eventful! I will be adding you on discord pronto!
I, uh, short version - dropped out of art school twice, started spinning yarn, still do that, now I bind books too. Mostly sketchbooks and journals, planners, but I do some zines and fancy bindings. I also haven't caught the plague! Still live with idk my bff Blayze. For eleven years now, that's an amount of time that's passed. And that's most of it, for me.
I'm Tomash. I joined back in 2011 and have been varying levels of involved in the community since. I also did most of the coding on the new Board, so do feel free to direct feedback at me.
It's nice to hear about the impact this place has had on folks over the years.
I am an oldbie who joined around 2008 or so and have poked my head back in a few times! Hello!
I fully apologise for having been that obnoxious 13 year old back when we were acquainted on LJ!
It's lovely to see you. :) I've mentioned to a few other people, but I also took your name in vain on my old Board memorial thread; you started off the second verse!
I've just noticed I described you as "the organiser of [the York] Gathering, inasmuch as they can be organised", and I just want to say you did a great job of PPCer-wrangling. I've been back to York at least once solely due to fond memories of the Gathering. (Didn't see Monty that time though!)
hS
Hi! I remember reading your stuff before I joined. I lurked around the wiki for about a year before showing my face on the board XD
I've only been around here for a couple years oh jeez does that make me a newbie or not? what is time?? but I'm almost certain that a few facets of myself that are particularly important to me right now wouldn't be the same without this community.
And I guess the writing skills are nice too. :p
Yes, I joined in the summer of 2002. Can you believe it's already been NINE YEARS?!?!
(Yes. I know. Shhhh....)
The fact that there are oldbies here who joined in 2008, and I was, like, fully gone from here in 2008, blows my mind. And I am in no way throwing shade - if you've been here since 2008, you are most definitely an oldbie. I just can't believe I'm so old I'm essentially a skeleton that just crawled up from the PPC cellar. :P
hello! i never imagined seeing all of these familiar names again! How have you BEEN?
this is honestly all more relevant to me than my highschool reunion
eeeeeey what up? God it's been ages. How are you?
Welcome back! It's such a joy to see the old names, even if it means I'm becoming less senior by the post. Alas, my respectable oldbie standing!
This really is an excavation thread isn't it? We just keep seeing older and older layers...
Hello! There are so many people here who were Way Too Cool For Me when I joined in mid-2003 or so. This is amazing! Canon Cookies for everyone! {= D
~Neshomeh
It's so good to see you here again. ^_^ (But you can't be a skellington - you're too busy being a bog person!)
hS
Also, welcome back! I hope you enjoy your stay.
If you want a look at some of the best stuff from modern PPC, I highly recommend Larfen's Flaming Broomsticks spinoff. It takes the PPC shared universe in an amazing new direction and Larf's writing has this incredible vivacity and flair that's almost addictive. Shift Twentieth's misadventures in janitoring changed what a spinoff could be, at least to me, and I recommend it without qualifier or hesitation.
Same goes for everyone else in the thread too. Larf's one of the best we've ever had and if you haven't read their spinoffs you are seriously missing out. Here's a handy link to the first story in the sequence; you can find the others in the series yourself by searching for Shift Twentieth, because you'll want to. =]
We never crossed paths before, with me having joined in 2010, then wandered away after a while, only to return last March, but it's always nice to see old people come back.
It's always nice to see oldbies returning!
I'm Kittyauthor, also known as KitKat or KA or kA last of which was definitely not stolen from hS hahaha and I joined late 2019. Like, really late, December late.
But hi! Have a glass frog, I always have extras.
Hi there! I'm a slightly younger oldbie! I was on the Board in 2008 and I also recently got back here because of a Tenth Walker joke I made about my workplace and now I've reconnected with Zing and man. It is so nice to see older PPCers around here, even if our paths didn't precisely cross all the time! I think I read about you in the Gathering Reports, yes, and then in 2016 I also did a very last minute Gathering with hS and Kaitlyn...
Here, have some lemming repellent! One can never be careful enough...
...Yes, pretty sure I was like, all the way gone by '08. It seems about right. I think if I got the chance to relive any particular days from my past, PPC Gatherings would be high on the list. It might be just pure nostalgia talking, but those things really did wonders. These days I would refer them as 'self-care'.
Thanks! Lemming repellent, huh? Well, seems to work. I don't see any of those around.
Nice to meet you though! And yes, my Gathering with hS and Kaitlyn was one of the highlights of my study abroad experience, so I feel you there! It was an excellent weekend altogether, and definitely falls under the header of self-care :P
Well, I should hope the lemming repellent works! It's my special formula!
If we ever have another UK Gathering you're welcome to come along. XD
hS
It was you who introduced me to the PPC, through OFUC!
Okay, yeah, your name does ring a bell! That is so cool, actually. =3 Not finishing that OFU is still a thing I feel guilty about, but I guess that was a fairly common practice. Still not great, though.
Thank for this plover! I shall cherish it!
In the Redwall OFU, you got an allusion in the Christmas special, when alumni of OFUC had flashbacks to the jelly monster.
Miss Minnaloushe probably wishes she could enroll the creators of the 2019 movie, am I right?
And you got further than I did in an OFU; the creative partnership on OFUMREDURE fell apart after the fourth chapter--right when Nara's character replacement for Eedrah (using the alias "Tomás Matúsalez") showed up.
I had no idea there was a reference to OFUC anywhere else! Ah, the Jellice Monster. One of the more delicious beasts out there. Thanks for telling me about it, I would never have known. =)
Ah, the 2019 movie... I have plenty to say about that, but I think that Miss Minnaloushe's hands are kind of tied when it comes to having an opinion. Like it or not, it IS an official Cats movie, which means it's canon, which means Miss Minnaloushe can do nothing to the people responsible for it. Even if she'd like to. Even if she'd REALLY like to. But it's not even about it being a bad adaption really, it's about it being a bad movie with baffling choices, and nobody was asking for it to be made and then there were all these huge stars attached to the project, and it is basically a perfect storm of terrible ideas and if she is anything at all, Miss Minnaloushe is just... confused by its very existance. And I am rambling. I knew that would happen.
OFUs are tricky to complete. I wrote the last chapter of mine in advance and still have it somewhere on my computer, but I have no idea where I would even post that now. XD
Look, if you know anything about Cats Twenty Nineteen, you know what this is. If you don't, IGNORANCE. IS. BLISS. I'm serious. You do not want this knowledge. No great deed is commemorated here. This is not a place of glory.
Brain bleach?
It's always heartwarming to see veterans returning. I'm Sun, (relative) newbie.
Wow talk about blasts from the past! So glad to see you around. I too am a serial lurker these days but check the Board every month or so. Elcalion, nostalgic
I don't think we like, chatted a lot, but I REMEMBER YOU. So nice to see another familiar name! =D
I think we're actually Facebook friends, but we've never talked that much. Or possibly really at all
I mean, that is very likely. XD I know for sure I have former PPCers on Facebook, but I don't remember their nicknames anymore at ALL. Well, apart from PDT and Newmoon, but those two I was better at keeping in touch with. (I am also friends with Miss Cam on FB. And yes, the part of me that will forever be fifteen and worshipping her is INCREDIBLY smug about that, even if we don't chat.)
Glad you made it! Have some freshly baked Canon Cookies. ^_^
Ahhh, I love it when Boarders come home to visit, and I'm ridiculously pleased that my story helped this time. This thread is a joy to see. <3
~Neshomeh
Thanks! I am having Moment after Moment here. It is quite nice, and you should definitely take some credit here. =3
I didn't join until after you left, but I've been a big fan ever since I discovered the PPC musical! It's by far one of the more cool and unique stories ever published for the PPC. I kept meaning to record myself singing some of the songs in it, but I've lost my singing voice as of late, so I don't anticipate being able to do so any time soon . . . But yeah, just wanted to say thank you for writing my favorite PPC story!
Incidentally, I used Sparklee as a brief background cameo at one point. Hope you don't mind! >.>
—doctorlit will probably have "Minutes in Sparklee" stuck in his head at work today
I cannot even BEGIN to describe the feeling of being told something I wrote sixteen years ago has been discovered and read and stuck in someone's head since then, and I have had absolutely no idea. Thank you so very much for telling me! ...I might need to reread that musical. I am not even sure I still have it rattling around on my computer anywhere. (I checked. I don't! YIKES.)
Ha! Of course I don't mind you using Sparklee! =D It's er, too colourful a place not to use, if I recall correctly. And should your voice ever return, I would absolutely love to hear the songs being sung. I would, um, record them myself, but it's... probably best if I don't. I know my limits.
I now have Allstar stuck in my head where it will remain until something else gets stuck :).
It's seriously great to see you again. :D I still think of the first London Gatherings as the classic Gatherings (do you remember the reports? :D); those were good times. I really like your thoughts on fanfic here - I've kind of drifted away from it myself, but you kiiinda make me wanna drift back.
I should probably mention that I took your name in vain a couple years back when the old Board closed down - I'm disgustingly sentimental and nostalgic, so you can find your name on my memorial of the final day.
Oh! And I used the Canon Nursery School (remember that?). Miss Lily was Agent Kaitlyn's teacher when she was 8, and I think Agent Ekwy's sister cameos as well. You're not just archived - you're very fondly remembered.
:D Made my week, this has.
hS
comes crashing through the window, glass flying everywhere, does a barrel roll across the floor
I HEARD U WERE TALKING SHIT
I just want it to be known that I have NEVER done anything wrong EVER in my LIFE and anything for which I have been UNJUSTLY BLAMED is a FALSE accusation about which my LAWYERS who are Very Real will be contacted IMMEDIATELY.
...wait who are all these babies and why is that sunflower giving me the stinkeye?
I have no idea if I ever actually talked to you before, but nevertheless, it's lovely to see you! Welcome back! Please help yourself to some Canon Cookies, too. There are plenty for everyone. {= D
~Neshomeh doesn't know what hS was talking about, either.
Don’t mind if I do!
Yeah I definitely remember your name but I don’t think we ever interacted much. That said, after Ekwy alerted me to this yesterday, I started thinking and counting off the people I’m still in touch with from back in the day and was mildly shocked and a little moved when I had to move onto a second hand. The relationships forged on here are enduring. It was such a good place for my nerdy, isolated high school self.
...and still have absolutely no idea why it was your fault. I think hS is on the verge of diving into archives to try to figure it out.
I mean you must have done something
Otherwise why would we say it
-Kaitlyn's arguments are unassailable
And I can prove it! Just look over there a minute.
[Legs it out the door]
Anyway hiiiiii! It's really good to see you too! I, er, didn't actually anticipate anyone on that thread actually seeing it. [Sheepish grin] Gods know what other time-bombs I've hidden in there. How've you been?
hS
You know, you ask me how I’ve been and my brain goes static and I can’t remember a single thing I’ve done in the past 15 years or however long it’s been since I was on here. I’m fine? I have a diabetic cat? I made cake last night? Life could be worse.
Absolutely wild to see you’re still around on this thing! For the record, my legacy amuses and delights me. ;)
Starting with "how long /has/ it been?" - I have literally no idea. Every year I tell BeautyID on Facebook that she must be nearly 18, and I about 3/4 believe it. You're younger than that, obviously, because time stops when I, The Observer, am no longer looking. ^_~
It is a delight to see you though. How did the cake turn out?
hS
(who is ostensibly better at conversations now, though it's not much in evidence right now)
Nearly 18? Yes, I'd say that sounds about right! Couldn't possibly be much older. Can't believe I'm almost a full adult, though. I'm not sure I'm ready! :P
Really doesn't help that my significant other is essentially also my high school sweetheart. I mean, it doesn't help the space-time continuum in my brain. I'm always like, "We were just 16/17, right? So surely we can't be more than, what... 21? 22?"
Cake was grand! Early mother's day lunch yesterday since we were both busy today. And we took the opportunity to look through all the pictures from our 2005 England trip--after seeing a few FB posts my mother made some accurate assumptions and began, unprompted, texting me pictures from the London gathering which made me dissolve in both achingly sweet nostalgia and mortification over my 16-year-old self, so a full trip down that particular branch of memory lane was very necessary. XD
Honestly no matter how much time passes I still feel mentally approximately 24 so all bets are off. (I used to say I was mentally 23 but this past year I've had a co-worker who is 23 and she is VERY 23 and I'm pretty sure I'm at least a little older than that).
In my opinion, college is the perfect balance between independence, responsibility, and not having to cook for yourself if you don't want to, and I aged out of it before I was old enough to appreciate it, and I resent the heck out of that. {= P
(I mean I also ran out of money, but if we're living in a fantasy, then money doesn't exist, so there.)
~Neshomeh
"PPC New Caledonia Memorial University has always been regarded as a bit odd - and not just because it's thousands of miles from New Caledonia, which isn't noticably in need of memorialising, and nobody knows what 'PPC' is meant to stand for. Perhaps it's due to their insistence on hiring only floral-named lecturers, or their... eclectic selection of courses, or the way the chemistry and engineering departments seem to be competing over who can burn down the most frequently.
"But even in a university whose campus nightclub is aptly named Discordia (at least /this/ week), and whose cafeteria is both legendary bad and weirdly popular... the residents of the conjoined Jay and Acacia dorm buildings (known with passive aggressive affection as 'the Board') stand out as even odder than the norm.
"To quote one student of Sue block, who wished to remain anonymous: 'Don't try and understand their dorm numbers, don't ask them what they're reading, don't let them invite you to their "Shipfest" or "Badfic Games", and for the love of Twilight, /don't turn your back on them/!'"
...
I already have strong opinions about "Huine Soron" (not the name on his driving license) and his repeated attempts to get the university to let him start a Pyro Club. "I know I say this a lot, " he tells his girlfriend Kaitlyn as he runs out of the last workshop of the day, "but /this/ time they're /sure/ to listen...!"
hS
I reread my Agent profiles and apparently Nea was educated at the "PPC University" (and failed to get a passing grade, which is why she was a trainee) whatever that was, unlike my other Agents. I do not for the life of me remember if there was a precedent for that, but it doesn't sound familiar. But hey, if there's a nursery then there ought to be some sort of higher education. A more academic approach to the otherwise more School Of Life deal PPC Agents usually seem to get.
I foresee a lot of shenanigans and possibly questions if this counts as a OFU.
I'm about four pages into the student prospectus, complete with handwritten comments by Huine Soron. Currently working on the greetings message from the Merry S.U., which should strike the appropriate fear into everyone's hearts.
I'm trying to decide, since this is a Boarder AU, whether having the agents as an honest-to-Mandos High School AU just down the road is too over the top. Perhaps PPCNCMU has a mentorship/tutoring program with PPC High, so Huine Soron is tutoring Dafydd Illian in Chemistry, and Selene Windflower in Not Setting Stuff Too Much On Fire.
hS
... Apparently it was in 2014, good lord, I thought it was more recent. But anyway: https://www.plotprotectors.org/posts/72329
~Neshomeh
Obviously the fact that PPC High also has flower names for all its staff is just coincidence, right? It couldn't be any sort of conspiracy... :O
Apparently I replied a lot to that thread, and yet it's never made it into any of the multiverse diagrams. I do have a scribble of a story somewhere that assumes the existence of a High School AU, but nothing coherent.
(Does the school have houses? If so, I know what they should be... >:D)
hS
Well, probably. I don't know if we remembered a "PPC University" specifically when we were talking about schools in New Caledonia (there's a PPC town in New Caledonia, btw, and there definitely always has been since about 2008), but the agents' guidebook says there was an Agent Training School there by early 2004, so that must be it. {= D The university bit has since been superseded by the Paul Atreides Lycée Collège et École farther south, though, and the original school is now called Digory Kirke Elementary High.
There is also education provided within HQ through the Nursery, too. The New Cal schools are probably somewhat more grounded in Real World education systems? Prospective agents at Paul Atreides LCE can probably take semesters at their OFU(s) of choice for credit, though, I bet!
~Neshomeh
P.S.:
Fezzik: "I"m on the Brute Squad."
Miracle Max: "You are the Brute Squad."
—The Princess Bride
^_~
...Yeah I told her. We are having A DAY, aren't we, Moons? A DAY is being had.
I am sure that whatever it is that is all your fault was totally JUSTIFIED and you cannot be held responsible because you were under A LOT OF PRESSURE, and it was all totally someone else's fault REALLY, and I will defend you until the DAY I DIE, and their Internet Lawyers will have NO LEG TO STAND ON I tell you.
... I am SO GLAD you told them. This is amazing and you are a star.
hS
This really has knocked me sideways. Hello, forum that really helped me Be a Person (and is probably like 50% of the reason I got really into fanfic which got me doing Creative Writing at uni and now I write for a living)
Newmoon and Ekwy and I have had a little freak out together in a nice and orderly fashion and now it falls to me to formally apologise for that fringe I was rocking back in ‘04/‘05.
I can’t believe all the Gathering reports are still up! hS, this labour of love is much appreciated by yours truly.
It would be impolite to several people for me to say you were the best part of the Oxford Gathering, but none of them are here. ;) It's so delightful to see your name again!
Oxford was basically the first time I'd socialised with, y'know, more than a couple of people outside a structured setting. I've walked a long and weird path since then, but that Gathering was very much the first step.
(Which is part of why the reports will never die. Never! Die!)
hS
I actually bought a LoTR ring from Literary Emporium the other day that put me in this kind of mood. Despite my dad being convinced nobody on the internet could genuinely like fandom and geek culture without horrifying ulterior motives, the Gathering was the first step in me going “oh, I’m allowed to be like this? And there are other people in real life who are too?”
I have since moved to Cambridge, sorry JRR.
....the "terrifying ulterior motives" would just end up being a bunch of teenage girls scream-belting Broadway musicals in the backseat of his car.
... that's basically how my PPC experience started. XD
hS
Is lovely to see the names of the Old Guard popping up again. Can't believe how long ago it all was, you must be, gosh, at least sixteen now maybe seventeen? ...? ...?
-Kaitlyn rejects your temporal progression and substitutes her own
Yeah, I’ve been frozen in time! Would definitely recommend, actually, I heard something about a “financial crash” that didn’t sound that fun...?
(I’m currently writing this from the sofa with the cat on me while my partner cooks tea. We’re getting engaged in a few months and it is WILD to think back to my tiny teen ficcer self and be like “oh yeah you have a nerdy partner, and your own business, which you definitely wouldn’t have if it weren’t for fanfic. And you still get to see your internet friends via video chat and sometimes in the flesh”.)
The PPC has a LOT to answer for.
The PPC was a rare safe place for an incredibly specific breed of shy nerdy teen, it was a little bit dysfunctional but it was the best thing about my life when I was a little'un.
Unfortunately I didn't manage to freeze myself in time, I'm a nurse now and the last year has aged me probably a decade on fast-forward, but never mind. Under the fluorescent lights bouncing off generic grey walls, who will see the wrinkles eh?
-Kaitlyn, wallowing in nostalgia
They put them down somewhere and forgot where. :-/
(Didn't we once have an actual Internet Lawyer? Jocelyn, right? I'm sure I remember that.)
hS
And yes, we did have an Internet Lawyer named Jocelyn! I certainly recall being friends with her on LJ!
Oh my god, links to the Gathering Reports that work! I will BINGE READ and also regret basically all of my clothing choices, because tenage me was a hot mess. Still have that little owl plushie, too.
clicks link of disgusting sentimentality
scrolls down
immediately bursts into tears
No this is FINE, I am not ugly crying at ALL, this is TOTALLY FIIIIIIINE. I happen to still hang on the regular with PureDeadThingy and Newmoon, and they HAVE been told of this.
Of course I remember the Canon Nursery School! Even if reading my old fic makes me cringe a bit, I was pretty fond of that one. I, um, noticed that Neshomeh had tagged her fic with PPC Nursery and I was all "...hey wait a minute" and I commented and she linked your Agent Kaitlyn story and I read it and almost FELL OFF MY CHAIR when I saw Gecka's name (she is my sister in real life and has zero interest in fanfic, but she was okay with being borrowed for story reasons and would for sure get a kick out of this). Anyway, Neshomeh was like "you should drop by and say hi!" and that is why I am actually, you know, doing that.
...So how've you been? =D
Or /we've/ been good, I should say, because hS/Kaitlyn went official back in '08 and now we have two, like, tiny clones running around the house. Haven't started them on the PPC yet, but I have done a full oral retelling of the Silmarillion, so I'm getting the corruption in early.
I've also spent much of the intervening time as a chemist who only /occasionally/ sets things on fire, so the Pyro Department has been appropriately represented.
And how about you?! What's life like in Ekwyville when you can tear yourself away from fanfic? ^_~
hS
Wow, Next Gen PPC for real... That is incredible, congratulations! =D Says a lot about you that you wouldn't start off on The Hobbit, but I respect that, I do.
Well, I spent my time getting knowledgeable about weird things? Studied a whole bunch, a little bit of language, a Bachelor's in archaeology. Then got almost entirely through a Masters in Librarian and Information Science (pretty close to assassin, really) before I got really into Escape Rooms while working at it part-time, so that is what I do now. I host and quite often design escape rooms. =D I am a very nice Game Master. Like, I don't torture people hardly ever. I still write, and recently I started to put up stuff on Ao3 that had just been sitting around on my computer not doing anything for a few years because I didn't feel like posting them on the Pit.
I will admit, if no one of the Old Guard had still been here I probably wouldn't have stopped by. Very different thing to re-introduce myself to people that didn't know me before, though I'm sure everyone is lovely! I am super curious about the new people, though, kind of want to know the demographic... Back when I signed up I was fifteen and that was like... fairly average for a newbie, I guess? And the older people (like Miss Cam) were in their early twenties and Very Cool Adults that I aspired to become. (Mission Accomplished. I am now Very Cool.) How many PPCers do we even have these days? Are there numbers? slams hands on desk Damn it, I want numbers!
(The delightful Aoife McLysaght courtesy the 2018 Royal Institution Christmas Lectures.)
As Neshomeh rightly predicted, I Have Numbers. Or rather, I Have Graphs:
This is us! Posts per month, for every month I have full data on. The picture is pretty clear: we had a huge spike in 2004 (the partial data makes this massively clear), a broad peak 2012-15, and now we've settled into a gentle downward drift. It looks like it might have plateaued - I'll have to pull in the 2019&20 posts to be sure though. (I think we may actually have picked up since mid-2020...)
But quiet though we may be, there's still a lot of us! Those 1500 posts this year come from 95 different usernames, and while a handful of those are aliases, most aren't. The top posters are pretty prolific, too: here's the top 10.
Huinesoron: 235 Neshomeh: 207 Ki no Shirayuki: 175 Midnight: 105 Kittyauthor: 84 Tomash: 60 Iximaz: 49 Thoth: 45 Zingenmir: 44 Scapegrace: 40
There's another 17 with 10 or more posts across 2021, including one "Ekwy" who's posted 14 times ^_~. We've got a nice solid mix of relative newbies, mid-to-oldbies, and the Seriously Ancientbies like me, Neshomeh, and indeed you. :)
So yeah, things have slowed down - but we're still here.
hS
PS: If you haven't quite scratched the nostalgia itch yet, I, er... have some of the early Board's subject lines archived. It can be fun to look down them and remember all the people we saw them with when they were first created. :) ~hS
... my vast spreadsheet of everyone's monthly post counts since the Board began. But if I did, the huge strings of 0s followed by a positive value again would be beautiful to behold.
hS
Those are some goooood numbers. I like "Seriously Ancientbies", even if parts of me that is in denial about that whole passage of time thing is vehemently protesting it, because surely there are those older than I? I can't be that senior, can I? Because I recall being in such awe of a lot of people here that were like... staples of the community and thinking I could never aspire to be that. But yeah... that is how time works.
It is nice that there is a presence, and that we still get new people! The warm welcome was just incredible too. And even if the initial high of nostalgia wears off and I decide to mostly lurk, I shall at least be in good company.
(This nostalgia itch will never be fully scratched, btw. It is such an easy wormhole to fall into! All these names just keep smacking me in the face with their familiarity, and I hope they're all doing okay.)
That's awesome! My partner (known as Phobos in these parts) did some escape-room GMing in the Before Times. His place had the very entertaining theme of time travel, so each room had a different setting in time, and the guests were cast as a team of junior Time Agents pulled together to cover for a senior Time Agent who had gone missing and to recover a piece of future tech or something that wasn't supposed to be there. Fun stuff. Of course, it helped that he had some prior experience with secret organizations that bop around keeping timelines in order, since I roped him into this for awhile. ^_^
(As for me, by day I'm a receptionist at an acupuncture clinic, and also by day I do some linguistic annotation to help teach AIs how to do words gooder. The PPC was very good training for that one!)
No small clones for us, but we like being the Cool Aunt and Uncle to his sister's kids. ^_^
Re. demographics, I joined when I was 18 (or nearly so) back in mid-2003. Pretty sure us 30-plus folks are stubborn, sentimental weirdos outliers and the norm is more like late high school/college-age, but it's been awhile since we did an actual survey, so don't quote me on that! I expect hS will be around with numbers on Board participation eventually, though. He does that.
There is also a Discord, as Midnight mentioned, but I don't know how many people are regularly active there, either. It IS regularly active in general, but I myself only pop in sometimes.
~Neshomeh
Oh I love a good time travel escape room, there can be so much amazing creativity there! I would absolutely love to do more right-out escape room design things (up until now I have done more outdoorsy things where you can't really control the environment and build narratives with that) and time travel would really be such a fun concept to work with. The owners of where I work did want to do their own thing and have another venue with history-based rooms, but then 2020 was a Thing that happened so any such plans were put on ice for now. But it is such a fun field to work in. I always loved being a "behind the scenes" kind of person who knows how things work, which is an aspect of the PPC I also always enjoyed.
I also live with a lovely fella (absolutely nowhere near being interested in fanfiction at all, but he's pretty cute so I'll let it slide), and we do not have any little clones, but we do have more cuddly toys than we reasonably should and I am not sure how that happened but here we are.
To be honest I am just amazed there are still newbies and still activity going on, so this is great. Now that I've fallen back into the rabbit hole of the PPC I might just... take a look at what's around and familiarise myself with the place. We had an IRC-channel back then, I think? Whenever I think about what being in that channel was like it's just.. a haze of pure hyperactivity and random loud noises. XD But then again, I was still sometimes struggling to keep up with it due to the language barrier. (I am Swedish, English is my second language, and I was fluent back then too but it was still a tremendous effort to keep up with lots of native speakers!) I also remember having to be in that channel very late into the night because that was when all the Americans were on. Discord sounds fun! I mean... who knows how active I will be. But it's nice to know it's there!
I can imagine lots of interesting ways to use props to make a fun experience. All kinds of potential for historical or fantasy-inspired scenes. I would be very into playing something like that. And, of course, being in open air makes it doable even under present circumstances, which is great. I'm in Chicago, so I dunno how likely it is there's such a thing around here, but maybe out in the 'burbs. Who knows?
I am proud the community has lasted this long. We've had some ups and downs, but we have learned and adjusted as needed, which is not a thing you can say for all Internet communities. It definitely helps that we had a good foundation of respect and tolerance to start from. This thing would never have worked as well as it has if it hadn't been started by genuinely decent people, and for that legacy, I salute you all!
~Neshomeh
...If you're ever in Stockholm. XD I'll tell you, designing an escape room experience is its own kind of madness. There's a lot of moving parts. And outdoors is a different kind of challenge if you can't control the surroundings. (We had a fun experience the other week when we discovered the exterior of a church we've been using for a puzzle is being renovated, covering essentially everything we needed people to see. So that was a treat, figuring out a replacement.) I will say, there is a lot of creativity in the world of escape rooms and it looks like it's a way of entertainment that is here to stay... I would love to make like an Alice in Wonderland thing for kids, playing with perspective and mirrors, and of COURSE the whole idea of magic portals in always appealing, going into different times or different stories... Wonder where I got that idea from? Weird.
Everything still being here does honestly make me wonder why I didn't check in earlier. Like, I knew it was here, and I just never thought to do it. I had this idea of the importance of forward momentum and thinking it would somehow be a step back, like I would regress into a teenager somehow? But it definitely doesn't feel like that now. I've changed a lot since I've been away (thankfully, it would be weird if I hadn't) but it was never a bad community to be a part of. It wouldn't be what it was like when I was fifteen, but that's because of me and not the PPC. So who knows how much I'll be involved from now on. Permission doesn't run out, huh? Well, well. How about that...
Or lack of progression, in my case. Growing and changing within the community has had its own set of challenges (how do I be one of the group *and* a Responsible AdultTM??), but at the end of the day, I love the setting, I love my characters, I love my friends, and I love all the wacky, creative shenanigans I get to be part of here, so I stay, and I help look after the place while I'm at it. {= )
I will say I've become more careful about missions, and my personal rule now is not to spork anything less than five years old—and the older the better. That way, if an author ever happens to come across the mission, they'll theoretically have had enough time to get some distance from it and also grow up a bit, if they happened to be on the younger side when they wrote the story. I don't spork to pick on people who are less experienced; I spork because I genuinely enjoy the "so bad it's funny" stuff and stretching my creativity to interpret the mistakes as matters of consequence to my poor, long-suffering agents. It's just such a unique form of critique, and storytelling in general. There's nothing else like it.
I also love the PPC setting's potential for unique character interactions it would be difficult to pull off elsewhere, like my ex-dragonrider being best friends with a Space Marine. Like, who knew that could work so well? {= D
And I like RPs and cowrites. So, y'know, if you wanna do something sometime... {= D
~Neshomeh
Yes, oh my god, I had forgotten just how diverse the Agents can be! I was pretty basic in my day, with three human Agents and one former 'Stu, but the sky really is the limit. And it's such a good practice for writing well-rounded, flawed characters that play well off each other, as well as never letting one character dominate the narrative.
Totally a good call to be careful with what you spork. I definitely feel more... compassionate, I guess? Less angry. I might just adopt that five-year rule if you don't mind, if I decide to get back into the swing of things. My hand has, um, kind of slipped a little bit and I am almost three thousands words into a synopsis of a mission for a fic that not only fulfills those requirement but I also definitely have permission to spork. (So I have gone from "oh I don't know how often I'll even be checking the Board..." to "I AM WRITING THIS MISSION SORRY NOT SORRY" and frantically perusing the Wiki in just a few days. Love that for me!)
And definitely keep me in mind for team-ups. =D That sounds like so much fun! I'll have my minis call your minis.
This is so exciting! May I humbly offer my beta services when you're ready? I'm... currently going over every time I've looked at the wiki and thought "I should update that" in recent memory, and slightly panicking about things being full of holes and/or not entirely accurate. {X D But also, I'm very curious to see what you do, and would frankly be honored to help bring a return mission from this long a gap into the world.
Oh, and yes, I do suggest the five-year rule for all and sundry, so feel free to adopt it! Just one more way to keep sporking about the writing, not the writer.
(I can't believe how much this thread is snowballing. Wow. I'll just... be here for a minute. o.o )
~Neshomeh
I was gonna ask for volunteers when it was done, but I'm glad I already have one! =D It's in the LotR-verse, a Tenth Walker 'Sue. (Absolute classic!) And my knowledge is a little rusty, and I was never an expert in the fandom in the first place, it is a whole lot of fandom, after all. But I would very much appreciate help with the PPC stuff. It has been a while. The Wiki is being very helpful, though! I certainly appreciate that it exists! I'll ping you somewhere when the mission is finished, writing it up will be somewhat of an undertaking... The synopsis just passed 5000 words. XD But I tend to write a lot of the dialogue early.
(And yes, oh my god, look at this monster thread! I am in shock; I've never set a trend before in my life! Every time I look I see another familiar name, and am catapulted back in time. It is just incredible.)
Feel free to ping me on Discord, and if you like Gdocs for the beta process (I do), my email is neshomeh (dot) soul (at) gmail (dot) com
I'm not the biggest Tolkien expert around, but it should be fine if it's mostly LotR and doesn't get too much into obscure points of lore or Elvish languages. If it does, though, we can ask hS, who is the biggest expert. But I wouldn't expect much of that from a classic Tenth Walker. ^_^
I fear no wordcount; my latest mission is nearly 18k, according to AO3, and that's on the long side but not unusual for me. Not to mention my current beta project, which I will have to make sure to finish before I start a new one.
(It is so incredible! I think hS has been spreading the word. And as of today, I am, too, just to see how far we can boost the signal!)
~Neshomeh
And just over 7 600 words. Now the actual WRITING starts... XD Gdocs work for me! You'll get an email when we get there. Gdocs also seems to be a favourite for posting missions if I understand it correctly? (Because the site where I used to post mine? Absolutely not a thing nor has it been for a really long time.) And of course you post yours on Ao3 as well as your own site. It is cool that the Ao3 possibility even exists. It seems to be a very much 'anything goes' kind of site for fan-created works, especially when considering the rules of the Pit... Speaking of, has Ao3 gotten a cute nickname? Didn't spot any on the Wiki.
(And also, quick Board question, what's the stance on plugging non-PPC writing? I was considering plugging The Usual Ten, thought that could be suitable for this crowd.)
Oh, this Suethor read the books... XD There might actually be some of those lore and language details mentioned, but I managed to use LotR fan sites for some commentary when my own memory failed. We'll see though! This'll be fun. =3
For eventual posting, hS and I are hosting our stuff on Neocities these days; it's great if you love the old-school DIY-type host, and free for a very generous basic package. AO3 is also pretty nice, especially now that I've learned "skins" are for custom CSS formatting, which let me do fun things for the look of Zingenmir's and my new email-based epistolary story. ... I don't think it has a cute nickname, oddly enough.
People who don't want to mess around with code, or just want to be more private, sometimes use blogging platforms like Wordpress. If you really miss LJ but don't care for what it's become, there's Dreamwidth—Trojie and Pads put all their stuff there (and I have a couple little-remembered character journals). Gdocs also works, but it's not my favorite; no personality.
I'm very much looking forward to this. ^_^ Plus, it's motivating me to finish my current beta project for Lily!
Re. plugging, plug away! Heck, I thought about plugging for you, but didn't get around to checking if that would be okay with you. {X D
~Neshomeh
Ah, lots of options then! I like it. I used to know plenty of HTML stuff for FF.net, but I feel that knowledge has totally atrophied. I have a (inactive) Swedish Wordpress blog so I am a little familiar with the platform. Ah, might just go for Ao3, I like having things in one place.
And I plugged myself. =D Of course I would have been fine with you doing it too, but maybe I can settle for a recommendation?
But it's still a haze of hyperactivity and random loud noises. Slightly more organized than it was back in the day, and we have content warnings...
Anyways, if you post your discord ID we can get you on. Sorry, it used to be open-invite but there were Incidents (several, repeated) so now people have to ask...
Well... Since I clearly never retired the name, my Discord ID is Ekwy#3289 (took me a while to realise I even had a Discord ID, I only ever use it to voice chat one game with friends and we haven't played in a while). I'd love an invite, though of course I have no idea how much I'd actually be on!
I'll send you a discord invite, and we can wave to each other, say hi once in a while, even?
I'd like that a lot. =)
You seem to be set to receive messages from friends only, so you will need to accept that so I can get you in the server. I am thoth#4271, for the record.
I think the general age of newbies is around 15/16/17 (you may guess away where I fit in there XD). I know there’s a bunch of people in their twenties, and, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong oldbies, a couple people in their thirties. There are currently 120-ish people in the Discord, but I’m not sure if all of them are active.
We're not "cool" anymore, really... Newbies come in in their teens, but the average PPCer is probably older than they used to be, just because we don't get quite as many newbies as often. As for average activity, it depends on what's defined as active. Missions release very slowly, and there are only a few people working on them. There are more people on the board and on the discord, and probably more than that lurking but it's hard to say for sure...
Have some virtual chocolate! (Just out of curiosity, who were your agents?)
Well, I had Agent Ekwy Fields, her partner Milano Cricket, and their trainee Nea Forrest, who eventually passed her training and got her partner, a former 'Stu named Loki. And technically I also had Gecka Fields, Ekwy's sister who she was paired with before Milano, in the Cats fandom, but she went insane and is for sure no longer active. (She didn't really go on REAL missions either, the stories I wrote with her and Ekwy were all based on parody badfics that I made up to be able to post them on FF.net.)
Thanks for the virtual chocolate! They don't make it like this anywhere else on the Internet.