Subject: *ponders*
Author:
Posted on: 2008-07-12 01:02:00 UTC

I think there are more than enough "symbols of power and independance" for women around.

Really? I'd argue that there aren't nearly enough, and so the few symbols we have do double duty, which just weighs them down under all our expectations. Go to Rotten Tomatoes and look at the movies that have been released for this week. How many have female leads whose character outshines their appearance? (You can even compare that to the numbers of male equivalents.) Furthermore, how many collective symbols of female power and independence have you seen? Just by looking at the characters listed in this thread, I can tell that lots of these women are "the girl" of the team/regiment or, if not the lone warrior, are one of the few female warriors in that universe. That's not a very good indicator that warrior women are plentiful.

There is a sense in fandom that there are lots and lots of strong women in media, because people can now name five or six off the tops of their heads who really stand out. Unfortunately, the reason that a lot of these strong women are so visible is because they are so isolated in the sea of male characters that the human race has produced.

I'd like you to do something for me. Go and write down your top 15 movies. Now, write down the following:

What percentage of the movies have strong and independent men in them? And women? (Please note that this can mean internal strength too, as well as other strength independent from firepower.)

What percentage of movies have only one strong and independent man? And women? Count how many characters of both sexes you would describe as strong.

What percentage have a token man who is the heroine's love interest? And token women?

What is the male-to-female ratio in each movie?

What percentage of the movies have men who are looked at not in terms of character, but in terms of appearance? And women? Count them all. (I'm not asking if these people are sexualized too, I'm asking if they're sexualized first and foremost.)

Now...and this is really sad...

Do the same, not for your top 15 movies, but for 15 movies you think have enough female chutzpah and strength to be called "girl power" movies. (Note that I'm not calling them chick flicks; that's a different genre entirely.)

I guarantee you that even in most movies with a strong female lead, there is at least one capable male, and that in the majority of girl power movies, the strong and independent men STILL outnumber the strong and independent women! And, hey, if you want to discount every movie made before the Women's Rights Movement, go right ahead. The results won't shift that much.

Are there still more than enough symbols of female power and independence?

That's just one medium, by the way. There are thousands of years of literature behind us where women like Keladry and B'Elanna cropped up once in a blue moon, where even internal strength in women was portrayed as rare. Strong and independent women in fiction exist, oh yes they do, and always have. But they are so heavily outweighed by the sheer numbers of strong and independent men (the ratio's probably about 500 to 1, taking into account all literature, fictional movies, TV, comics, legendary oral history, and heck, even folk songs) that they often get lost or are forced to become more in the public consciousness than they were ever meant to be by the author.

This is why years and years will pass before there are "more than enough" symbols of power and independence for women. This will only happen when those symbols outnumber by a significant margin all symbols of power and independence for men.

*toasts* Here's to you, 2800 A.D.!

Not to say that women don't deserve such thing, but quite frankly, we already have it, and I think a lot of women nowadays are throwing their victory into everyone else's faces. It seems like the pendulum has swung too far.

By "victory" I assume you mean the success of the women's movement. If I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. If I'm not, how exactly does one throw one's hard-won civil rights into everyone's faces? "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah, I get to vote now!"? Besides, equality is really a victory for everyone, not just women.

That said, I do like strong female characters. The one whom most fits your description is B'Elanna Torres from Star Trek: Voyager, but the one I most admire in terms of being a strong woman is Mara from Raymond E Feist and Janny Wurts' Empire series - she makes her victories by being clever politically, and has no skill at all with weapons. I like that.

I'm familiar with (and have a soft spot in my heart for) B'Elanna, and I've never read Mara's adventures but have actually heard them cited elsewhere as a good example of a non-Sue, non-militaristic female. It might have been Winterfox.

I like warrior women - I'd call myself one - but I tend to avoid them because from what I see in society today, I think it's overkill. We know women can be strong; what's unexplored is how strength, how the ability to fight and win, doesn't require weapons or battle cries. There are many I would call warriors that don't fight.

Of course there are, and I could say the same. Arms-bearing women are just the easiest to contrast with Warrior Sues, the latter being the most visible female character cliché in most badfic. (I count wand-dueling as warring, by the way.) I'd argue that the existence of Warrior Sue is due to the fact that, even if there are many strong female characters, the proportion of these in comparison to men is so skewed that a lot of Suethors aren't exposed to enough of them and taught to value them. At the same time, as 21st century writers, Suethors subconsciously feel the need to reduce the huge gender imbalance that plagues virtually every genre and medium. In other words, they want true strong female characters, but aren't knowledgeable enough either to write one or to appreciate one when one comes along. Add this to raging hormones and the influence of Canon Sues that they idolize, and the result is a bizarre chimera--misandrist and sex object--that we agents encounter and slay on a regular basis.

~Araeph

Reply Return to messages