Subject: Okay, okay; I surrender
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Posted on: 2008-07-12 02:09:00 UTC

You're absolutely right about films and such; I hate them, and tend to ignore them, and while I was thinking of non-story social treatment, I should not have used the word "symbol". The thread below this sort of outlines the point I was trying to get at, but I did so badly in this first post, so I apologise. I should've gone back and rephrased myself.

Among other things, I DESPISE the fact that movies never seem to have women that aren't thin and sexy - or men that aren't handsome. Sexuality may sell, but it makes the rest of us feel horrible, and I would love to turn the fashion industry on its ear... but I'll not get into this discussion, because I will literally never shut up. In short, you're right again, Araeph, and I humbly bow at your feet. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.


By "victory" I assume you mean the success of the women's movement. If I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. If I'm not, how exactly does one throw one's hard-won civil rights into everyone's faces? "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah, I get to vote now!"? Besides, equality is really a victory for everyone, not just women.

It should be, and yes I did mean the women's movement, but what I was getting at is that a lot of women seem to misunderstand what gender equality actually means; now both genders have the right to work any job they want, but that doesn't mean every woman can have a great career AND raise a family. Equality on that front gave women a CHOICE of what they wanted from their lives, not the ability to have everything, and from what I see around me, many seem to be blind to that. Then they go complaining about unfairness of little details because they're stressed by trying to have a good job and a family at the same time. I'm not saying it's impossible, of course, just taken to be what every woman is entitled to have .

Sorry, I've gone off on a tanget. By "throwing in faces" I meant that men are often getting the short end of the deal in situations such as custody cases because a lot of women throw around the "I'm a woman and if you don't support me you're gender biased!" card. They forget that by making that very claim, they're being gender biased themselves. I didn't mean to imply that all women do such things, but it does happen.


I've never read Mara's adventures but have actually heard them cited elsewhere as a good example of a non-Sue, non-militaristic female.

Mara's interesting. I rather like her, though I only read the five boosk by Timothy Zahn, and refuse to touch any of the other Star Wars EU books. She is militarisitic, though, in some ways; she was a trained assassin for the Emperor, and her targets were mostly political. A lot of her behaviour has (or HAD, as she did grow) straightforward, highly efficient mannerisms that people can associate with military training. That said, she never felt like a Sue to me, and I appreciate her character.


as 21st century writers, Suethors subconsciously feel the need to reduce the huge gender imbalance that plagues virtually every genre and medium. In other words, they want true strong female characters, but aren't knowledgeable enough either to write one or to appreciate one when one comes along.

EXACTLY. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Which makes it all the more of a shame when they create bad stereotypes.

- Sedri

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