The PPC Posting Board - Latest posts

Similarly, the PPC is responsible for introducing me to Terry Pratchett (my obsession with Neil Gaiman is simply a result of my comic book geekiness)... and draining my bank account as I desperately purchased every book he has ever written :P

"One downside of getting heavily involved with the art and craft of good writing is that it has made me realize some of my favorite writers as a young person are actually not that great."

I found this to be an interesting point, as I probably tend to revere those childhood authors more than they deserve... CS Lewis, Beverly Cleary, and AA Milne are a few that come to mind. Which writers were you specifically referring to?

At least you learned something from it. Plagiarism is a dreadful, icky thing, and it's probably (definitely) for the best that you dealt with it via fanfiction, where the consequences were minimal. Or rather, minimal when compared with expulsion from school and such.

This is a good rebuttal. Sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending or anything. I'll definitely strive to improve my missions based on your suggestions.

I always had the most difficult time coming up with great original ideas as well; the plethora of plot bunny trouble that others complain about was definitely not a problem of mine, despite my vivid imagination. The fact that I was always making up stories about my favourite stories worried me... up until the point where I started reading fanfiction.

That's a lovely benefit of the internet in general... the ability to make friends whom you otherwise never would have met. It's certainly aided me through many a tough time in the past few years!

Double damn. I never knew this was such a sensitive subject...

Before long this is going to turn into one big laundry list of grievances. Boards have been torn apart that way.

So, you pretty much hate everyone, then?

I'm pretty new here, so I don't presume to know much, but...

I dunno, I think using that same formula makes things a bit monotonous. I mean, it's often stressed that killing Sues and exorcising Wraiths and such is dangerous work, but a lot of times agents just, as you say, go in, snark a bit, kill the threat, and leave. I mean, shouldn't we spice things up a bit by actually showing that what our Agents are doing can be life-threatening as well as sanity-threatening?

And also, "Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichés." That was quoted from TVTropes. Just because it's a trope doesn't mean it's automatically a cliche. I mean, there are some tropes like the Big No and other Discredited Tropes that are considered overused, but not all of them are.

With the Emergencies and the big weapons and stuff, I agree. So far I've only seen one of the former, and I don't consider big weapons to be much fun. But I don't really see many of the SueAgents. Or maybe I just have low standards. I don't know.

Just wanted to put in my own two cents.

I give fair warning: Not all of this is directed at Chliever. Just most of it. I'm saying what I'm saying and I'm not holding back. I don't care if someone gets hurt feelings at this point, people's blood is boiling too much in the background for me to care for hurt feelings.

That's not a decent argument, that's an excellent one.

And I'm going to be honest before everyone right here and right now and say you're one of the ones I have the biggest beefs with, with what she's said.

How can it be possible for something to be forgotten when there's so many people and there's been use of that department for spin offs before? And I stated what Sara said to someone before; just because a spot is empty doesn't mean we need to fill it before someone else does. Just because you can do something in theory doesn't mean you ought.

What the hell is a Spirit Tree, and why would one department have two Flowers from the same continuum? Why the hell would the PPC let in an 'Elder Evil Tree'? Isn't that just asking for trouble? Not only is it evil, apparently, it's also an elder evil. EVIL THINGS. THEY ARE BAD. EVIL THINGS GENERALLY ARE A BAD IDEA IN THE PPC.

Why the hell do we have a sentient orangutan in the PPC? And if an Agent has the same name as a canon and isn't that canon or isn't secretly that canon or some insane gone round the bend person thinking they're that canon, IT IS BEING DONE WRONG.

Using 'he has a cold, almost uncaring demeanor, quite odd for a doctor.' as a description? POOR. WHAT SORT OF DOCTOR, HOW IS IT ODD, WHY DOES THIS EVEN MATTER?

And, your main Agent, Chliever, is a GIANT PLAGUE BEARING BEING FROM A CANON OF GRIMDARK. And is nice. And 'as a member of Floaters, Chliever takes great pride in his versatility, and firmly considers himself one of "the best.' And you handwave all of the potential aughdanger from him. Last I checked, the PPC does have a sense of preservation. A poor and misdirected one at times, but there is a great deal of "I WOULD LIKE TO LIVE, AND STAY HEALTHY OUTSIDE OF THE OCCASIONAL STUNTS I PULL ON MISSIONS BECAUSE THE SUE WAS TARGETTING MY LO." I honestly can't see many agents wanting to stay in the same building as something like it, sanitized or not. Hell. SUE. STU. AIRY OO OR WTFEVER.

On the subject of Emergencies: WHEN PEOPLE KEEP COMING UP WITH SOME EMERGENCY OR ANOTHER THAT IS GOING TO DOOOOOOOM DOOOOM US ALLLL WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOM-ED, YOU KNOW WHAT? It gets boring. It is nonexciting. It becomes expected. Formulaic. Because no one is actually going to let it actually DOOOOOOOOOM the PPC. And amazingly enough, people are going to actually, you know. Have the Agents save the day. Against impressive odds. Despite everything.

Sueish, much?

Emergencies I can think of off the top of my head since the 2008:

Macrovirus, Sue invasion, mega mission because of a SUE THAT WOULD DOOOOOOOM US ALLL ALLL I SAY, Gender Bender, Fake Emergency of April Fool's.


And your whole damn reply to Sara? Goddamn, man, I haven't read such a condescending response since I reread what I'm writing right now.

Continuing on, I have a huge beef with a lot of you. Some of you seem to have forgotten manners, like asking for permission before borrowing someone else's agent characters (Cassie. Who knows who else), writing boring missions (Ugolino, Cheliever, KGarrett because it seems someone told him interesting bits that build character SHOULD BE GOT RID OF), not writing missions at all (ME), too afraid to state your own opinion on matters because you're afraid of being disliked or not being welcome on the board if you do it(Once again, KG, Trojie, Vixenmage).

I'm stating this right out.

I think a lot of people are making this place suck. And because everyone here wants to be nice, they don't say anything to all the idiots that ignore the politely given suggetions, they politely withdraw and leave rather than huring feelings. STOP THAT. COME BACK HERE. DON'T MAKE ME COME AFTER YOU.

AND YOU PEOPLE MAKING EVERYONE LEAVE? UGOLINO, KG, CHELIEVER, JOE, WHATSYOURFACE.

SHAPE UP OR I SHALL GO AFTER YOU TOO. LISTEN TO PEOPLE. ACTUALLY TAKE ADVICE. LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING COMPARED TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE.

I have a lot more to say, but this is enough for now.

Besides this:

OOGAH BOOGAH I'M COMING AFTER EVERYONE.

Perhaps it is because you haven't been here quite as long as some of us. In the two years I was here before the 2008 Invasion, there were no Board-wide Emergencies. After April? Suddenly there are more and more Emergencies cropping up, and not just on the Board. Missions become less mission-y and more Homeric epic-y. RPs become less of a fun, lighthearted way to play around with characters and more of a means to more drama. And believe me, the Macrovirus Crisis was anything but in the background.

No fixation on big weapons? Perhaps you haven't seen the posts asking for usage of high explosives (I also seem to remember one asking if it was okay to use the power of the gods?!) to take out a Sue that, while seemingly impossible to destroy, could easily be defeated with brains and not brawn. Just because you're using your brain to write doesn't mean that your Agents don't have to use theirs to complete their mission with as little disruption to the 'verse as possible.

Perhaps it is, but it is a point all the same.

There's always an exception. You can never be sure.

I stand by my point here. Yes, they are writing devices, but when you write them only as they're seen on TVTropes, they are cliche. Try tweaking them. Making them different. Or maybe even make them subtle.

...really. What about the Agents randomly turning into Time Lords? Don't we, y'know, charge 'fic characters for that? How about the ones that are supposedly unphased by anything and everything? The ones who can use noncanonical spells? The ones who shouldn't be Agents at all due to the impossibility of them being recruited? Take a look at the Agents on the wiki. A goodly amount are more Sue-ish than not.

I think you might be over-exaggerating a bit with regards to the OMG EMERGENCIES. The only one I recall in recent memory was the 2008 Invasion, which was over a year ago. The April Fool's Day Invasion was a one-off gag, and the Macrovirus Crisis was essentially in the background.

I haven't really noticed any fixation on big weapons, to be honest. Chliever has a pretty big sword, but he's a pretty big guy and said type of sword is standard issue for his race. Maybe I've just been reading the wrong missions...

Your third point is the same as your first, incidentally.

I've made up a couple heads for Departments, but only because I was sure those Departments would otherwise never be used again. Does ANYONE remember the All-Purpose Department. I thought not.

You misjudge TVTropes, I see. Tropes are simply writing devices. They're not synonymous with cliches. If they're used too much, they become cliched. Not all tropes are cliched, as they're only cliched when they become boring. If we were boring, we'd all be cliches.

And really, I've noticed no increasing Suvianism in Agents. Perhaps you're overreacting?

Decent argument, but not without a few holes. I hope I don't come off as flamey.

I understand that routine gets boring, but we need to find a happy medium. Look at July's missions, for example. They're the formulaic missions, but they also have long intros and outros filled with various hijinks that help to define her Agents and make the actual piece more interesting. Writing things besides missions is perfectly all right, but it stops being okay when it turns into a drama production that would make Shakespeare cringe.

Can be explained in every "repeated routine drives the focused character to madness" clip show ever included in any show or movie ever. After a while, it gets boring: that's why vacation days exist for pretty much all jobs. And certainly, it gets boring to read the same thing over and over with just the names switched around and different targets picked out.

I'm not suggesting that we up and close down HQ to turn the PPC into a traveling electric rock band-- for one thing, I doubt any of the Flowers would look good in plastic and leather. But some variance is nice: it does help make things interesting to break up or spice up the standard template of enter-bitch-snark-kill-leave. After all, "Strictly Formula" is a Trope, too.


And also, while I'm hardly the most pleased about Makes-Things' death, it really did open up a chance to put more focus on the DoSAT as a whole rather than just the one man. The DoSAT isn't supposed to be just Makes-Things, but as long as he was alive that's how it was treated.


I must admit, I'm fully expecting to get stomped on for saying some of this stuff. But it is what I think.

Poor Black Knight, though. He may be foolish, but he doesn't deserve being beaten up just to make a Sue look good. Good work.

~Neshomeh

In my case, I was writing before I discovered fanfiction. For me, it was initially a way to bond with the small corners of fandom in which I found myself--first for the game "Creatures," and then more significantly for "Farscape." My first Farscape fic was also the first story of any significant length that I actually managed to finish. It's not great, but I did it, and I'll forever know that I can.

Furthermore, that fic led directly to joining the PPC thanks to one of the helpful people on the Friends and Defenders of Pilot message board, who pointed out in the kindest possible way that my original character in the fic was probably a Mary-Sue. Not knowing the stigma attached to the name, I readily agreed that yes, that was probably right. Later, I discovered Fanfiction.net, which led to OFUM, which led to the PPC. And I've been here since.

I still have one fanfic that I feel I ought to finish, even though it's been years since I started, but overall, as I've sporked, I've drifted away from fanfic and tried to apply my skills to my own work. I have a nice little collection of vignettes now, and a full-scale fantasy world in the making.

Fanfiction and the sporking of it also made me realize that I'm better than most people at spelling and grammar. I've worked on becoming very good at it in the hope of turning it into an editing career. That way, theoretically, I'll be able to make a living, because I know I won't be able to do it writing. I just don't have the consistency for it.

One downside of getting heavily involved with the art and craft of good writing is that it has made me realize some of my favorite writers as a young person are actually not that great. The board has also confirmed that I will never be able to love any fantasy work as much as I love "The Lord of the Rings," which for me embodies technical perfection as well as masterly world-building and story-telling. On the other hand, the PPC message board is responsible for introducing me to some of my new favorite authors, particularly Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, who have taught me that it is still possible to be original and to be damn good at it. They give me hope.

On that note, I think I've talked more than enough. ^_^; Kudos and hugs if you actually bothered to read the whole post.

~Neshomeh

Blackest Knight

An outing for the DoWTF, into something which I've had bookmarked for at least three years.

hS

Maybe actually, you know, write things more than occasionally. {= P

My own confession is that I find myself drawn over and over toward psychological drama and, though I shudder to say it, angst. The fact of dealing with insane people in insane situations makes me want to know what makes them the way they are, and to explore the effects badfic has on them physically and psychologically. This fascinates me, but it leads me away from humor at times. I have to fight that tendency when it comes to my own agents and, perhaps, develop it into writing about the canon characters in FicPsych instead. In that case, I also have to get over my fear of writing canon characters. If they're in FicPsych it's a given that they aren't quite themselves, right? So if I get some things off I'd be forgiven, right? ^_^;

Hopefully my next story will set some things right.

~Neshomeh

Your emergencies are historical events, so they don't just pop up randomly.

Or making jokes on the lack of changes, a la The Simpsons, is also good.

And as quite possibly the original offender in the OMG THAR IS AN EMERGENCY category, I certainly should. (I can tell by how many times I've wanted to right "However..." so far)

... right, no more excuses; I'm going to sit down and write a normal, standard mission with no drama other than, y'know, the sort that normally comes from a pair of insane people wandering around in a bad fanfiction.

hS

Decent argument, I must say. I admit I'm guilty of name-dropping a few new Flowers, but only for Departments I was fairly sure would just be forgotten if I didn't do that.

Nevertheless, good Argument. One thing I disagree with, though, was your assessment of the death of M-T. Why can't the status quo be shaken up once in a while?

Also, in before wank.

But also lovely people to argue inconsequential aspects of grammar with. Fun times.

It's also taught me that I get on really well New Zealanders.

The Good Omens Fan Fiction Summer School. It's... slow progress.

... agents dealing with some everyday non-mission-related problems. More character interaction. Nothing huge and world-threatening, just how they deal with life and the problems that naturally come along with being a PPC agent. Or, heck, what happens when missions go horribly wrong? Not necessarily involving the agents being captured and nearly tortured to death, but it'd be more fun if occasionally they screwed up.

Reminds me, I need to come up with something horrible to happen to Agent Foxglove - Laburnum's already been through a nasty near-failed mission thanks to her own inability to think things through.