1. Do you think people who have watched Star Trek: Discovery in its entirety but haven't watched the original series can be considered true fans of Star Trek (I'm not talking about the original series)?
   
   2. Are you saying "I'm progressive" and insisting you are as a defense mechanism?
   
   3. Do you mind politics in Star Trek or any other media if the politics are well-written, subtle, and don't take over the story?
   
   4. Are you actually trying to keep others out of the Star Trek community?
   
   5. Have you encountered any other Nazis than "femnazis"?
   
   If you are okay with answering these questions, could you try not to name-call or insult?
   
   And everyone, if you're going to call him out on the insults, name-calling, and gate-keeping, do that. Other than that, I don't think suspecting that he's right-leaning or worse is helpful.
   
   

I started this 24 hours ago as a means to point out some of my issues with Discovery. Since then, I have been accused of being a right winger (I vote for Labour. I’m also a bit of a control freak at the same time, and that may hsve caused some conflict here). I have been accused of gatekeeping due to some poor word choices on my behalf, and a admittedly unclean rap sheet here on the Board.

At the same time, I have been forced out if my comfort zone, and I admit that this has caused me to react rather poorly. This whole situation has begun to snoeball out of control, and I’m beginning to feel more than a little unwelcome around these parts. Should I take this as a cue to leave, or...?

But the thing to remember is, as we collectively watched our way through the six seasons, we didn't know it at the time.

One part of the fandom latched on to the characters, and their journeys. Lost was unique, in its time, for having an absolutely massive cast of main characters. Generally speaking, each episode would focus on one character and reveal aspects of their history and personality from before the crash, through the show's infamous flashbacks. These revelations would often shed a new light on their behavior in the series' present. In the buildup to the finale episode, the portion of the fandom that latched onto the characters was primarily invested in seeing their personal journeys through to the end, and find out whether any of them would manage to escape the island.

The other part of the fandom latched onto the worldbuilding of the Lost setting. Without giving any substantial spoilers, the world of Lost contains no less than two mysterious organizations, overt breaking of various laws of physics, freaky breeding experiments, and a very literal smoke monster. The writers did an excellent job of portioning out both the discovery of new mysteries, and the answers to problems already discovered. In the buildup to the finale episode, the portion of the fandom that latched on to the mysteries was excited to finally get answers to every strange and inexplicable thing that had happened in the series.

The final episodes came and went. And the Lost fandom, which had previously seemed like a single group, was split in two. Because the writers delivered on one group's wishes, but not on the other's.

It may be due to cuts necessitated by the Writer's Strike—the last three seasons are noticeably shorter than the first three. It may be because the writers wanted some mysteries preserved for the fandom to puzzle over long after the show ended. It may be that the writers themselves were more invested in the characters than the mysteries. Whatever the reason, the finale focused on finishing the stories of the characters, and left much of the setting's mysteries unresolved. And suddenly, a fandom that had been so united for six seasons suddenly saw infighting on a massive scale, with the mystery fans feeling that they had been cheated out of the answers they had craved for so long.

Here's the thing, Minh: Even though one half of that fandom was vindicated through the writing and the other disappointed, both groups were legitimate fans. They both enjoyed watching the show. They both enjoyed interacting with each other, up until the finale. They took different things away from the show, enjoyed it for different reasons, expressed their fanlove in different ways. The experience of both factions was valid. It wouldn't be right for either group to look at the other and say, "You aren't real fans, because you don't like it the correct way—the way I do."

You are allowed to dislike Jodie Foster's acting. You are allowed to dislike the newer Star Trek material. But other people are allowed to like those same things, and dislike the aspects of those fandoms that you like. Because everyone is different, so everyone can potentially like a different thing about a story. But that doesn't mean that only some of those fans are "real fans."

—doctorlit would give anything to line up the entirety of the PPC in front of a screen and make them binge all of Lost while doctorlit sits next to the screen watching the Boarders's faces just so he can see their reactions

I get the feeling that you guys are putting words in his mouth because the way he worded his points in an awful way.

Are you trying to be constructive here?

In response to mirage fontaine:

- By definition, I am progressive. I support gender equality. I support the gay rights movement. I am a advocate for action against climate change. I want the future to look more like what Star Trek envisions. What I do NOT support is the extreme left. Tumblrites. Femnazis (my least favourite kind of Nazi). Men-haters. Basically anyone who’s a dick about being progressive and tries to ruin the fun for everyone else. I despise people like Anita Sarkeesian because they want to corrupt a entire industry to fit their veiwpoint and their’s alone. I despise people like Alex Kurtzman, who make such a big deal over trivial things like ‘the first interacial gay couple on Star Trek’, before invoking the ‘Bury your Gays’ trope, and making the whole point moot anyway- just to tick a box on the ‘Social Justice’ checklist. Diversity has become the sole hiring quality in Hollywood. People who act worse than others in a specific role are now selected for their skin colour, sexuality or gender; rather than valid qualifiers like experience, skill, or even suitability for the roll they are tasked with playing. THIS is what pisses me off more than anything.

* BSG isn’t a problem for me. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have brought it up immediately after mentioning the bad stuff.

*I don’t gatekeep. What I don’t expect is to go onto a Trek message board, and encounter people who think that the Jar Jar Abrams movies are representative of real Star Trek. People used that “oh, I’m a fan because I watched three seconds of that movie” back when I was in Hogh School to bully me. I don’t appreciate a similar sentiment being used to qualify someone as a dedicated fan. Especially if they claim to have no idea what a Tribble is.

*My issue is with the writers, and how they can somehow hijack massive pillars of fandom without having watched ANY of the show that they’re writing for. It’s obvious from the entire first two seasons of Discovery that the writers hadn’t given more than a cursory SKIM through any of the five CANONICAL series of Trek. As in TOS through ENT. The disrespect to me as a dedicated fan, the canon violation that would qualify STD as badfic if it was as mundane as fanfiction...it’s criminal that none of those Peta’Q writers attempted to watch more than a cursory selection of episodes.

I'm glad you came to see why your previous attitude didn't mesh well with our community's standards, but I have huge problems with what you've said here.

I don't watch Doctor Who or BSG, so I can't pass judgment on the quality of those shows and the views expressed in them, but I've told you already that entertainment and politics aren't as separate as you seem to think. Your beloved Star Trek (which is also my beloved Star Trek, incidentally) has always, always been political. During the run of The Original Series, Nichelle Nichols was asked by Martin Luther King himself to stay on the show, because her character was so important for black representation in mainstream media in a time when the Civil Rights Movement was actively happening. You can hardly call Star Trek "not political" if you know... pretty much anything about the show. And you know, complaining about those damn SJWs and calling progressive writing "propaganda" is hardly a good way to convince us that you're on the progressive side yourself. That's all I'm going to say on this subject - I'll leave the rest to people who know more about these shows.

What I myself am getting very upset about here is your attitude towards nerd culture. I myself am a nerd, I myself was bullied pretty cruelly in middle school, and stories have always been my number one refuge. But - and this is very important - just because you love a story doesn't mean you own it>. Nerd culture is not an exclusive club anymore, and you don't get to dictate who and how can enjoy the stuff you like. I won't go into how Star Trek has always been mainstream because it's one of the biggest and oldest franchises in sci-fi - that's a rant for another day. But if you have a problem with your favorite shows and whatnot being accessible to more people than before, that's your problem, not theirs. You don't get to tell who does and doesn't get to be a part of nerd culture. Your enjoyment of something doesn't, or at the very least, shouldn't depend on who else happens to also like it.

You were disappointed in Discovery, and it was a big deal for you, I can understand that. I myself have had giant disappointments in fandoms that were literally keeping me alive in dark times, but that doesn't mean I get to cry about how MY THINGS PERSONALLY were ruined. These fandoms don't belong to you, or to the Elite Nerd Club. Your opinions and love for them does - but that's it.

Complain about the quality of TV shows and other stories, sure. But don't say that they were ruined because they became mainstream. Don't gatekeep, Minh - it's anything but progressive.