Wikilot's kinda... uh... dead. Apparently they only gave one day's notice, so... um... no one was really happy with them about it.
Most of the stuff was saved, though, and there's a new wiki... I believe it's here. The front page looks kinda barren at the moment, but it looks like most everything is there.
Does that help?
This list is also available as a Atom/RSS feed
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*points down* by
on 2008-08-11 07:47:00 UTC
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historical fiction in what sense by
on 2008-08-11 07:43:00 UTC
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I've handled a few fanfics that mucked up history. But is this department specifically for fandoms that have a historical setting or does it go everywhere?
Agent Allison might be interested. Her knowledge of history is anekdotal and mainly covers 19th and early 20th century West-European and (some) American history.
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Problem accessing PPCwiki by
on 2008-08-11 07:36:00 UTC
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If I try going to the PPCwiki all I get is a list of sponsored links. And a list of related topics that go to more sponsored links.
Anyone else having this problem? Is there something we should have done but didn't do? Has wikilot gone bonkers?
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What story? by
on 2008-08-11 06:14:00 UTC
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Give us a link to the story in question? I still have enough left of my mind to give him a piece of it.
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Politics by
on 2008-08-11 06:07:00 UTC
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Well, having been through at least my share of forum politics, I've formed a few hypotheses about that particular problem. The most important is that the cause of forum politics is not the forum itself, but the innate politics in the organization that populates the forums.
Take Usenet as an example, back in the golden age before the Eternal September. Unmoderated newsgroups were about as much of a free-for-all as has ever existed. Some of them were nightmares of flaming, sniping, infighting, and general asshattery. Others were some of the most civilized discussion groups I've ever seen. Since they all had the same structure, or rather lack thereof, the only significant difference was the population. The same is true of Web forums. For example, at various times, I've been a mod or admin in a number of online game forums. Those whose populations consisted of people who were big on in-game drama brought it to the boards, and there was more than enough forum drama to last a lifetime. Others, whose populations consisted of people who basically liked each other and weren't trying to be jerks (my former WoW guild, for instance) had no forum drama at all; there was a general agreement on how to go about things, so that's how it got done.
The way to reduce politics, I think, is simply to make it useless. What would be the point of politics on a PPC forum anyway? Make those decisions that need to be made -- should we add a new forum section for legendary badfic nominations? -- by consensus. Forum mods could be appointed by the same mechanism as PG's are. Or we could do entirely without mods, for that matter, and just deal with troublemakers the same as we do now. Or something in between, where there's a mod or two to take care of spam, but anything by a real user is left alone. Look around you: is there any problem with politics now? Changing whether we have an EDIT button and organized sections won't change people's attitudes, or make us all into different people.
I was using the term "cabal" jokingly. Whoever would maintain the website and hosting, and being root admin of the forum, wouldn't have any more of a voice than anyone else. I hope we, as a group, would be able to choose people who wouldn't want to expand that role to anything more than keeping things running and implementing any changes, like a new section, that the group consensus called for. Having a member of a group who takes on a job that needs to be done (like keeping a website paid-for) doesn't diminish the anarchy as long as their role is understood to be akin to that of groundskeeper rather than owner: a duty and a service, not a position of authority.
In other words, go along just the same as the PPC has always done, except that a couple of trusted people handle the technical stuff on behalf of the group. A better forum won't cause political drama to spontaneously generate any more than moving some politics-riddled forum to a system like this would cause it to go away. It's the people, not the medium.
Oh, and just so the massive cash flow doesn't cause drama of its own: Anyone who contributes five bucks during the annual fund drive gets listed on the forum, so the bill-payer (who would obviously have to be a Money Plant!) never gets accused of collecting a few extra contributions than are needed and splurging on a double-cheese pizza.
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Proxy servers, etc. by
on 2008-08-11 05:28:00 UTC
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Oh, I fully understand the use of proxy servers, much to the frustration of one badfic writer who has this idea that she can keep me from commenting on her badfic (and it is very, very bad) on her blog. TOR is a royal pain in the neck. As for the sockpuppets, trolls, and whatnot, they know about proxy servers too. Unfortunately. One of the first things I learned as a forum admin was never to underestimate the persistence and inventiveness of trolls; you've never seen it all.
I'll admit that not many forums use this format, although off the top of my head, I can think of Slashdot and Groklaw having a user option for a similar layout. I know Groklaw runs GeekLog; not sure what Slashdot is using but I think it's proprietary. There's a down side to this, though. It's very hard for someone, especially someone new to the forum, to find something from more than a few days ago. There is a lot of community history here, but it's all inaccessible behind some very large number of presses of the Next Page button, or getting lucky with the limited Search if there's something in particular you're looking for. A more conventional forum would allow that history to remain readily accessible (and browseable) to the community, newbie as well as veteran.
I suppose I'm mildly annoyed with myself over the IP issue; if I'd noticed that before I posted, I would have been using a proxy all along. Guess it's time to talk to my ISP for a change of IP, and use a proxy. *sigh*
I'd still like an EDIT button, though, and topic organization, and an archive of everyone's PPC stories all in one place, and user profiles, and a pony.
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To address one of the points, at least... by
on 2008-08-11 05:01:00 UTC
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I think one of the things that has made the PPC what it is is the utter lack of a ruling cabal. We have no leaders, no authority, and no real politics, beyond voting in permission givers. We are a creative anarchy here, and that's definitely part of what the PPC is. While we've had to deal with problems in the past with more creative ways than simply banning and being done with it, I think it makes us stronger. I've seen board politics on more conventional forums get very ugly, and I really don't want that to happen to the PPC.
Now, if we were to get a new website, and keep the current forum structure intact, what could we do to reduce politics? (This question is for everyone, by the way - I'm not challenging you for an answer, Wandering Critic, I want to know what people think, and this is a convenient spot to put it.)
(And don't worry about coming across as pushy, conversation is a good thing. Going out, making a website on your own, and then posting demanding we all switch would be pushy. This is good conversation.)
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Discussions about this stretch back to the Dawn of Time by
on 2008-08-11 04:53:00 UTC
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(that is to say, when I was a newbie.)
We've tried a few different alternate forums - one on livejournal, one on Proboards, and I think there was a third as well. None of them took off, though, and I think there's a few basic issues.
Firstly, the thread setup here on the board is quite unique, I have yet to find another place like it. I like being able to see every single post made from the index, I think it adds something to the community.
Secondly, there's a matter of momentum - we've been here for a very long time, getting up and moving would be all kinds of hassle. There are those who have left (either temporarily or permanently) because of security issues (virii, adware, etcetera), but ultimately, if you have decent protection (Firefox, ad-aware, AVG, etcetera), you should be fine - I've never had any trouble with it.
As an addendum to the previous point, there are a lot of websites that link to us here, many of which are no longer updated. If we were to move, we'd be a lot harder for newbies to find, which is a Bad Thing.
There are ways to get around the IP address display - I connect from a big university, where I could be any of twenty thousand people. It would be a lot easier to find and read my livejournal to work out who I am, rather than try to IP trace through my school.
On a more practical note, there are a lot of proxy servers available on the internet - how they work is that you send your internet traffic through them, and it all gets stamped with their IP address rather than yours. I wouldn't trust the free ones with any important data (passwords, credit card numbers, home addresses), but for surfing the Board, they're reasonable.
Finally, if you're really paranoid, there's TOR, which is like a proxy server, but way better. I don't understand all the ins and outs, but a system built to get anonymous traffic through the Great Firewall of China without revealing its source is going to be very, very good. It's also free.
I like the IP addresses, myself - they give just a touch less anonymity, which has come in handy in the past for spotting sockpuppets, trolls, and the like.
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You see... by
on 2008-08-11 04:44:00 UTC
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The PPC is set up in such a way that no one is really in charge. The permission givers are here so that way there's at least /some/ control over the shared universe. They're permission givers because the community as a whole trusts them to know what the community is about and to help with newbies also wanting to PPC, not be figures of authority. Having a website would end up doing something like that. There's no real hierarchy here except for the ones people put in their minds.
As to links, Cam still maintains her website which still hosts the original series after it was kicked off of FF.net, but P@L, whose site has the link to this board, has been AWOL from fandom for a few years now, at least. (Thus why the front page hasn't been upated.)
The Board only keeps a limited number of posts in the provided archive; and will only stay up for a limited amount of time. If there were no posts on it in, I can't remember which, either three or six months, then the board would be deleted, simple as that. So yes, while your link is evidence of there being an archive, it's a very small archive- right now going back to only mid June- and every new topic on the front page pushes an old topic off the last page and into internet oblivion.
The person who set this board up I believe is P@L, who as I mentioned earlier has been AWOL for several years. The only thing keeping this board in existence is the activity of
its members.
And yes, I agree, revenge reviews are annoying.
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*applause* by
on 2008-08-11 04:42:00 UTC
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Very well written.
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Re: Here...we...go! by
on 2008-08-11 04:30:00 UTC
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Your zerglings. My zealots. Bring it.
Um, it's probably not a good idea to let 'Toss outside their native continuum either, is it? Oops. Well, any world can be improved by a Dark Archon or two running around.
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so he's accusing you of plagiarism ... by
on 2008-08-11 04:27:00 UTC
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... because you have the same story in two different places? Do tell me you're replying and explaining, and also telling him what a [long string of naughty bad words] he is?
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Well, to answer the technical objections ... by
on 2008-08-11 04:26:00 UTC
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Who would manage the account? Make it several people. That way, if one of them vanished, the others could take over, and appoint a new cabal member if needed.
For those of us who are not underage, paying for it is easy enough; PayPal is everywhere. I'll pledge twenty bucks towards the funding, and my services in setting up the forums as well.
For those who are underage, why not the truth? "Some friends and I are setting up a website for our writing and stuff, and we're each pitching in five bucks to pay for it." If that doesn't work, you go down to the 7-Eleven, buy a money order, and snail it off to whoever's paying for the website.
Regarding the links, I take it that both the PPC archives in question are abandoned, then? Disappointing to know. :( That's a good argument in favor of having a full-fledged site that several people have admin access to, by the way. Anyway, if the links point here, the simple solution is to leave a link here pointing to the new website at plotprotectors.org (or whatever). People will follow it, don't worry; fans will find anything. (oh, and someone really ought to update the front page here; it's been like five years since any new news was posted)
By the way, the "wait until the posts drop off the page" doesn't work; they're there for all eternity. Check this link for a random example -- I googled for a post from a few pages back, and there's the page. So we have all the negatives of persistence without the positives, like being able to easily find something in an old thread.
Again, I'm not trying to browbeat people into agreeing with me. Just addressing the technical objections.
As to whether online activity and real-life identities are going to be more or less separate, that's a whole other can of worms. Certainly one side of the political spectrum is trying very hard to restrict freedom of speech all they can, and outlaw anonymity (except, of course, for the State and its operatives) along with it, and the other side wants to make everything politically correct "for the chidren." But there's a counter-push by privacy advocates to prohibit tracking and data-mining of our online activities, and that seems to be picking up momentum. Speaking of our underage posters, it may well be a US federal crime to have their IP's visible here; the law is a bit vague and very weird about that. So it's not quite as cut and dried as it looks.
Just out of curiousity, by the way, who is the administrator of this board? It seems like there are a lot of options that aren't being used.
Anyway, I'll put twenty bucks and my forum setup skills where my mouth is, if people decide to go that way.
Oh, as for the butthurt fanbrats, having them posting revenge reviews for my fanfic would be majorly annoying. I've never said anything online that I wouldn't tell the person in question to their face, nor that I wouldn't admit to on national television (a good rule for not having things come back to haunt you, like some politicians have had), but I'd really rather not have my fanfic, and my other activities, cluttered up by whiny children.
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OT: Plug of a short-storied nature. by
on 2008-08-11 03:30:00 UTC
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"So there I was, trapped, and no way out. I was gettin' desperate, ya know? Tryin' like crazy ta find some kinda way around the barrier, but no luck anyway I tried." He paused for dramatic effect, slicked back the fuzz on his head, and continued. "Every time I thought I saw somethin', I'd go fer it and hit a wall again, ya know?"
His audience nodded, almost in unison, and Gud licked his lips and took another sip of his drink.
"And then, jest when I was thinkin' it couldna gotten worse, the whole damn place starts thunderin'! It was somethin', I'll tell you what. And then, all the sudden, the whole barrier freakin' grates down a couple feet! It was incredible! I didn't wait fer no signal, I'll tell ya. I went straight for that gap next to the thing, and none too soon!" He paused again, looking with a wide grin around the small crowd.
"And none too soon-- jest as I was haulin' ass outta there, this huge mass comes lumberin' in, like some kinda monster or somethin'! I tell you, that thing took one look at me and I was gone, no need ta wait around fer somethin' like that! When I made it out to the other place, there was a breeze blowin', an' it took me 'bout a split second to follow it the hell outta there! Another one o' the damn things took a swipe at me as I was slidin' through, around the screen-- bloodthirsty monsters, the lot of 'em. But I made it, and ya know why? 'Cause Gud's a survivor, that's why."
He looked with satisfaction around the crowd, smirking. It was a tale, that's for sure. Got 'em every time. The youngsters loved to hear it, and it even impressed some of the older ones-- the ones who hadn't done the same themselves too often, that is. And even then, they liked to match up tall tales, sometimes. Now, though-- what was that character up to?
Pike smiled and took a sip, watching the old fellow bask. He couldn't resist, though, and, carefully folding his wings, pointed out, "It all comes of your foolhardy following the scent of the food, wherever it happens to lead. No one with a brain would go into one of those deathtraps if they gave it half a thought."
He was met by the expected cold sneer. "Well, excuuuse me, we can't all sit around and sip the drink o' the gods, now can we? Some of us have to work to find our food. An' what's a character like yerself doin' in here anyway, if yer so much better than us common flies, eh?"
In answer, the monarch simply raised his glass. "Makes great drinks, and the conversation's entertaining."
"Yeah, well you can jest as well take your overlong probo somewhere else, yeah? We don't need no stinkin' flutterbugs 'round here."
Pike smiled again, and unfolded his wings. He was easily twice the size of the small green bug, but, sense of mischievous wit aside, would rather not get into fights, especially with houseflies-- they tended to get nasty, quickly. "As you wish-- Gud, was it?" He drained the last of his drink and, flexing once, rose quickly into the air on his graceful, orange wings.
Houseflies. They were an odd bunch, and no mistake. He'd known some pretty smart ones, and some pretty stupid ones, but the craftiest ones even had a problem when it came to food. It was like they couldn't help themselves! Like he'd pointed out, no one with half a brain would go into a house if they thought about it for two seconds, but if a fly smelled food, a fly would... well, fly. Pike laughed to himself as he landed on the top of the holly bush. Food of the gods, was it? Alright then, he'd take it.
Pike was the exception for most monarchs, he knew. There was a reason why old Gud had been giving him funny looks even before he'd opened his mouth. An average butterfly simply did not hang around under bushes-- especially not with houseflies. Butterflies were sunlight bugs, sunlight and flowers and breezes and dewy mornings. But Pike was not an average butterfly. He'd been a strange one, even as a caterpillar, or so his friends had told him. The days of crawling were only a very hazy memory, at best, to most butterflies. Infancy, really, and then the cocoon, and then-- then rebirth.
There was a reason, he mused, why so many other flying insects looked at them so strangely, and why most butterflies kept their own company. They were not like other bugs. Butterflies had their own problems, their own risks-- quite different from the lives of other bugs, even aside from the rebirth halfway through their lives. They were practically like a magnet for predators, sometimes, and finding food was completely different from any other bug's life. No other bug had hummingbirds to contend with, he thought wryly.
"Oi! Flutterbug!"
Startled, Pike broke out of his reverie to see a young mosquito on the leaf opposite glaring at him. "...Yes?"
"You're in my spot, flutterbug."
Pike curled one antenna, the butterfly equivalent of raising an eyebrow. "Your spot?" Mosquitoes were quite posibly the cheekiest bugs he'd ever come across. Maybe one tenth his size, shouting at him as though he was an aphid, the thing! They were crazy, the lot of them, too-- constantly dodging in and out of angry mammals' reaches can do that to you. They didn't usually live long, but the ones who did were the best storytellers in the world, houseflies be damned.
"My spot! I'm there every morning, it's the only place on this bush where you can catch any sunlight!" The little bug twitched its sharp mouth angrily. Pike was amused.
"Alright, alright, don't get your wings twisted. I'm going." Grinning to himself, he rose up into the air again, and, after a short pause to get his bearings, headed for the nearest vine of flowers. It was past lunch anyway, and there was nothing quite like morning glories at this time of day-- right before they folded. Some butterflies he knew liked the stuff fresh, but he tended to go for the older nectar-- it collected miniscule particles of dust, giving it an odd... "tested" sort of flavor.
Food of the gods, indeed. He unrolled his long proboscis-- it was one of the longest around, and he was rather vain, in that aspect. As he flitted from flower to flower, slowly working up to a full stomach, clouds gathered on the horizon, and the air began to get heavy. Pike grimaced as he realized that the growing storm could well be a bit dangerous, if things got heavy. It looked like cutting his lunch short was the only option.
Worth it, though, he acknowledged, settling in behind the trellis of the vines. Shifting his wings into a more comfortable position, Pike slowly fell asleep as the rain pounded outside, safe and... well, relatively warm.
So... thoughts? I will probably expand on it and add it to the growing book of short stories to lie gathering dust on my computer forever. Heh.
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He was covered up, wasn't he? (nm) by
on 2008-08-11 02:33:00 UTC
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I dunno... by
on 2008-08-11 02:30:00 UTC
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If anything I think that is incentive to put it on the list.
*grin*
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Hahahahaha by
on 2008-08-11 02:28:00 UTC
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I just got this review from him, on the story I have on my reviewing account (I keep it there so fanbrats can't go 'don't criticise me when you haven't written anything').
"THIS IS NOT STOLEN"? Then why is it that this story was copied word for word
from another website? Did you even notify the author in question of what you
were doing? I think not. If you must borrow another story for your own
purposes, whatever they may be, you at least should notify the original author
of your borrowing. Otherwise, it is just theft. I will be reporting you for
plagiarism.
He's accusing me of plagiarism, on a story that I have on FFN and on LJ.
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Everyone's got an opinion, dude. by
on 2008-08-11 02:27:00 UTC
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But, like I said, this has been hashed and rehashed and discussed over and to death, over the past few years that I can remember. Every time we get a serious troll (and I mean a Serious Troll-- ask anyone about the Sergeant Heretic/Union Jack affair), the issue comes up.
I think we're just too deeply rooted here.
(also I believe that if Huinesoron were here he would add many reasons, which I cannot remember, but one of which is that he has said several times that he will not move from this location, as is the same with quite a few others, I think.)
One of the reasons, too, that I think came up last time was that we've been here for so long that this is where people look for us now, and we might throw a confusing trail if we moved, as well as that this board would fall into disarray.
But yeah, you've got an opinion, and no one here is going to jump down your throat (well... I kind of did, but not in a totally aggressive way?) for voicing it. Don't be shy!
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Yep, I am where I am. by
on 2008-08-11 02:20:00 UTC
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And I've always had an open policy regarding my name or location. There's no point in me doing anything that'd ruin my reputation online or in real life in the long run. I don't hold the opinion that online activity and what you do in real life is going to be as separate as it is in a few years.
And it comes to those 'butthurt fanbrats', however, pretty much none of them have the ability to understand what to do with that IP address, though. It takes real understanding to bother to do that, and pretty much all of them don't have that understanding.
As to the idea of the PPC getting its own website, that sort of thing is tricky. Yes, we /could/, and if several people help out at once it makes it easy to afford it. But then we get down to various nitty gritty problems. Such as is it really a good idea to do that? Who would manage the account? What would we do if they dropped off the face of the earth? And so forth. Not to mention most of us are underage or still living under our parents' thumbs. A bit difficult to explain why you need to use one of the credit cards, I would think.
And there's another reason for us to stay here besides the fact that we've always been here as a community: As it is, both the main PPC archives that a lot of people find their way to the PPC community through direct to this board and there is no way to change that link.
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More by
on 2008-08-11 02:12:00 UTC
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- I will not go on missions 'skyclad'
- Or 'naked, like the celts'.
-No, not even if the console beeped while I was in the shower
-Walking around HQ like that is similarly discouraged
-I only have myself to blame if Lux misinterprets it
729. I will not take Napalm into Mirkwood
-Or Mossflower
-Or Lothlorien
-Or any canonical wood or forest.
730. I will not switch a Pernese dragon with a Hungarian Hornback
-Not even if I think Lessa can handle it
-Not even if I think Harry deserves something a bit easier during the first task
-I can, however, switch a Sue's dragon for a Hornback
- I will not go on missions 'skyclad'
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Here...we...go! by
on 2008-08-11 01:53:00 UTC
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- I cannot, and will not try to, simply rock into Mordor.
715. I will not teleport an army of zerglings into Middle-Earth and zerg rush the Black Gate.
- I will also not zerg rush the Citadel in City 17.
- Or any of the Horcruxes.
- Or Klatch.
- Or any prominent building, land or object in any
continuum outside of the Starcraft universe.
716. I will not introduce Wall.E to Johnny 5.
717. I will not teleport Goku into the Heroesverse, or Peter Petrelli into the Dragonballverse.
718. I will not teleport Star Wolf into the PPC.
- Not even at the request of a Flower.
- The PPC can't let you do that, Agents.
719. I will not make reference to Sharpteeth around the PPC Nursery.
720. I will not attempt to kill off Mutt Williams if I enter an Indiana Jones 4 fic.
- Nor will I try to kill Anakin Skywalker if I enter
a Star Wars prequels fic.
- No matter how much I want to send a message to
George Lucas that his meddling kids are not
appreciated.
- I cannot, and will not try to, simply rock into Mordor.