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Here, have some chocolate and enjoy your stay!

And don't worry, you're not the only one tired of drama. Thanks for the heads-up though.

I should of made this clearer when I posted this. I do not dispute a kicking of Mythcreant, what I am disputing is the permanent ban as it now means that they no longer have the ability to defend themselves in this matter in any reasonable way. Added onto the fact that not only do I now not have any means of communicating with them, but none of us do.

If I were in Mythcreants shoes at this point. I wouldn't want to return no matter what the final decision is, you've all made it pretty obvious to them that you don't want them around.

Novastorme

I read it as Mythcreant saying that Bramandin was banned because brown people were mad at them, which left me speechless when I read it. Perhaps I misread the comment, but it struck me as offensive.

So I just went on Discord and noticed this in the upstairs channel (where the mods talk):

"[9:06 PM] PoorCynic: A permanent ban has been put into place for user Mythcreant."

Too soon?

Because here's what I'm seeing:

Iximaz-Today at 10:35 AM
So are you or are you not actually Bramandin?
Mythcreant-Today at 10:35 AM
Nope.
Iximaz-Today at 10:35 AM
Right. Forgive me if I don’t believe you.
I’m stepping away from this now.
Mythcreant-Today at 10:38 AM
I know my city isn't very big, but what are the statistics on two people coming from the same area?
I mean, you get 30 people in the same room, 2 of them are almost certain to share the same birthday.

I mean, the only problem I see with that is the Birthday Paradox bit, and that's because IIRC you need at least 30 people to be in the same room for it to be certain, not almost certain. And the only reason I know that is because I had to research it as part of my postgrad studies. Looking at the rest of that conversation I don't really see a callous remark about the people involved in banning Bram. The closest I can see is this:

"Mythcreant-Today at 10:59 AM
That's a new one. The comments I read was that brown people were scowling at them."

Which while potentially inaccurate, is not really a callous remark, let alone aimed at the people who banned Bram.

"Those spinoffs [hosted on fanfiction.net] would be difficult to find on the PPC wiki."

Not really? Spin-offs aren't listed by platform. If you look for missions in a particular department, you get a list ordered by number of stories and then alphabetically by agent name. If you look for missions in a particular fandom, you get a list ordered by agent name or by story name. If you look through the Killed Badfic lists, you get missions ordered by fandom, then by story name. I think the chances of hitting on something on ff.net would relate mostly to how old the spin-off is, and would tend to correlate with fandoms that were popular when the PPC was new, such as LotR and Harry Potter.

There's also a good chance of finding missions on ff.net if you're poking into the PPC's history, checking out references on department pages and such. Making that sort of information easier to access is a big part of what the wiki is for.

~Neshomeh

A very polite knock at the door roused Kaitlyn from contemplation of the next season's corset fashions. Upon answering, she found herself looking up at an exceedingly tall and captivating man. He was bald, but every centimeter of visible skin was tattooed with bright gold runic script. He had deep, soulful eyes in a face that was hard to describe, but seemed somehow familiar. He was dressed in pilgrim's robes of dove-gray, and carried a handful of palm leaves like a bouquet.

"Hello," he said. "Are you Kaitlyn?"

"For you, definitely," she said. "Who are you?"

"I am Lorgar Aurelian, sometimes called the Urizen. I was told you were a priestess. I have come to worship you."

"Former priestess," Kaitlyn pointed out, "and don't you mean 'worship with me'?"

"I do not. I seek someone worthy of devotion. You, a former priestess, perhaps understand the joy in humility, the release in giving praise. Benevolent Kaitlyn, will you not receive my prayers?"

"How..." Kaitlyn swallowed an inexplicable mouthful of drool, "how would you go about worshipping me, exactly?"

Lorgar blinked his lovely eyes. "On my knees, of course."

Kaitlyn looked at him, then herself, and then the likeliest pieces of furniture in the room behind her. "Maybe if I piled a bunch of pillows on the bed...?"

"A most fitting altar." The Primarch smiled.

"Well then. I guess you'd better mosey on in, and bring your pilgrims to my holy shrine." She beckoned with one finger, and the Urizen followed.

~~~~

I did the other thing! I thought I'd get more jokes out of the premise, but I think the point gets across. {= )

Sorry for giving you more robes to draw, hS.

~Neshomeh

First, Nova, I think you make very good points for the most part. You're right; it's all but impossible to prove for a fact that Mythcreant is Zdimensia. From what I've read, all we really have is circumstantial evidence (though there is a lot of that).

But I want to look at this particular thing you said: "Now with respect to the changing stories of how well Mythcreant knew Zdimensia, if you knew someone who'd been banned or barred from a community would you openly mention it to them when you first came in and wanted them to accept you? I know I certainly wouldn't." That's a good point and would explain a lot of Mythcreant's behavior early in the logs, but when they were asked point-blank if they were Zdimensia/Bramandin, that would've been the time to come clean. Instead, Mythcreant made a rather callous remark about the people involved in banning Bramandin.

Also looking at the logs, Mythcreant's knowledge of the PPC went well beyond a wiki walk. They referenced spinoffs hosted on fanfiction.net, a platform from which the PPC was kicked because of the nature of what the PPC does. Those spinoffs would be difficult to find on the PPC wiki.

In doubles battles you've got to consider how many pokemon your moves hit, for example moves like Earthquake, Discharge and Surf hit all the pokemon besides the user, including allies. Whereas moves like Heat Wave and Rock Slide will hit both enemies. You've also got to consider moves like Ally Switch or Heal Pulse that are meant to target allies, not enemies and so are useless in single battles. Finally moves like Trick Room or Tailwind see a lot more use in Double battles, as well as weather conditions alongside abilities that benefit within said weather, for example Sandstorm and Sand Force, or Hail and Ice Body.

Have a pile of multi coloured pens.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm sorry for putting you in the hot seat. I don't think you're obligated to be Mythcreant's advocate or anything; but I do think it is the responsibility of all members to speak out if they disagree with a procedure like this. I very much appreciate that you've done so. Thank you.

I absolutely agree with you that we should presume innocence until guilt is proven. I believe Mythcreant was given that chance when her request for the IP to be unblocked was granted.

I think your interpretation is reasonable, and if it weren't for the history of Zdimensia repeatedly deceiving us to try to get back into the community, which you mention yourself, I'd be far more inclined toward it. However, like I said in my initial post, I think the far simpler and therefore more likely explanation is that this is Zdimensia performing yet another deception with the same goal of getting back into the community.

I also agree with Ix that, even on the outside chance this is a different person, they immediately decided they needed to grind an axe with us over an issue we've hashed and rehashed already, and we have no obligation to let them drag it up again.

And, for a completely subjective point, I was right when I recognized Makkara as Zdimensia the last time, by more or less the same criteria of mannerisms. (Her difficulty remembering or using the names of stories and agents, and the way she talks about them, is a particularly strong ping on my radar.) I'm inclined to trust my gut on this.

This isn't me closing the debate, though. This is me explaining why I see it the way I do. If there are others who see it differently, I'd very much like for them to say so.

~Neshomeh

As GMA points out, many things are political in nature, including some things that are deeply, importantly personal for some people (e.g. gay marriage—I guarantee that's not "light" for everyone) and other things that seem to many of us like what should be clear questions of wrong and right. Political identities are nearly synonymous with moral values. That's due to the extremely polarized state of the world we live in today. It wasn't like this, at least not to such an intense degree, ten or fifteen years ago, when the Board was new.

That's why I wonder if leaving all that stuff to communities intended for it might be best at this time. We're not a political forum; we are a writing and community forum. It used to be possible to have rational discussions about different political viewpoints here, but that was before the issues were so radicalized.

But then again, we do have a very clear ideological statement in our Constitution that happens to align with a political identity. Maybe we are political whether we like it or not, and to pretend otherwise and make this a place where we stick our heads in the sand would be an insult to us all.

I think Grundleplith is dead-on with this post, where they say "The main issue really is that stifling discussion will make some people angry, whereas a lack of filtering will hurt others."

Because, yeah: we're all in different places in our personal growth and development, and we don't all share the same passions/fears/concerns to the same degree. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does make this stuff difficult to navigate. I'm not sure what the solution is, or if there can really be one.

One thing we can do is constantly remind ourselves to be compassionate and understanding with each other (and ourselves!), even—especially—when it's hard. We can try to live the values of the ideal world we want.

That's not an answer or a solution, but it might be a way toward one.

~Neshomeh

Even on the highly unlikely chance Myth isn't Bram, they still came here with the intent of stirring up trouble and demanding we unban Bram after that case was closed and done. They didn't come here acting in good faith, threatening to make things worse if we refused to consider taking Bram back, and I see no reason why they should not be banned as well.

Ignore the drama and get in touch with your creative side! Enjoy this metaphorical notebook for you to practice writing (if that’s your style).

Yeah, this is a rotten time to join up if you have a Thing about drama. But we're keeping that on the Board for now, in its designated threads, so that the better parts of our community can continue to be.

But hey, since you're here, have a full set of dice! You get to choose your pattern. And as consolation for the shoddy patch you joined during, have this set of steel-plated trousers. You never know where the spikes will be when you're trying to sit down.

I’m mostly into folk and rock/alternative rock but I really enjoy a wide variety of music. I guess the most attractive thing in a song to me is a good beat.

Though in terms of favorite artists: Sufjan Stevens hands down.

Because at the moment it looks like you, and other people are looking at this as 'guilty until proven innocent'. While I'm looking at it as 'innocent until proven guilty'. And like I said, I see a lot of hypotheticals and potentials, but no definite proof. I'm not meaning this as an attack or anything, I'm just saying that's what it looks like from my Point of View.

I haven't had any conversation with Mythcreant about this, I can't claim to be speaking the exact truth, or saying what they want me to say. But what I can say is what I see and why I don't think it means that Mythcreant is Zdimensia.

First up, the formatting. We're not the only community on the internet, and so just because what we see as unusual formatting here, does not mean that it is a mark of a specific user, heck if I actually knew how to do it on here, I'd be using that bar a lot more too. Why? Because I know of several communities I am in, or have been in where the use of that bar is not only not unusual, but seen as perfectly normal. Mythcreant could have come from one of those communities, or another one like them that uses the bar like that and just used it in their posts.

Secondly the IP address, which has been covered by other people. It doesn't offer any proof, only that Zdimensia posted from the same building/area as Mythcreant on one of their accounts.

Thirdly, the logs. So first of all, with respect to the whole Name of the Wind opinion thing, I decided to look up Name of the Wind reviews on Google, and I found this: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/305264406 which, I think you'll find does indeed correspond with a lot of what Mythcreant is saying about the book, and the main character in particular. I haven't read all of the comments on the blog, so the only thing that I can't find is where someone says Kvothe is based off a D&D character, but at the same time from reading the review I could see where it was coming from.

With the introduction and the questionings of what Bram did I see an inquisitive newbie who's just asking because they want to know, and this is then further matched when they say about bits of PPC knowledge that aren't common knowledge, after all what's wrong with a bit of wiki diving? I know I do it from time to time too. The comments on Zdimensia being autistic and that potentially being the reason for the communication troubles is not a opinion held by a small group of people, it's a widely accepted fact that people who are on the autism spectrum can have problems with communicating, so what is wrong with going "oh they're autistic, that could be why they had trouble communicating" when it is a commonly held view and fact. Just because Zdimensia's alts said it doesn't mean that everybody who says it is one of Zdimensia's alts.

Now with respect to the changing stories of how well Mythcreant knew Zdimensia, if you knew someone who'd been banned or barred from a community would you openly mention it to them when you first came in and wanted them to accept you? I know I certainly wouldn't. From how I would act in a situation like that, what Mythcreant did, is perfectly normal, as people keep digging and digging reveal more and more of the truth to try and keep them happy and to let them know the truth, because Mythcreant could have easily lied and said "No I don't know her, it's just unlucky." But they don't, they reveal the truth because in the end they feel like they need to. And as to Zdimensia being more and more of a problem with Mythcreant as a mediator, well we've seen what happens otherwise, how many times has Zdimensia tried to get around the ban while hiding behind falsehoods and lies? How many other failed attempts do we not know about? How do we know that Zdimensia won't try and try again, whether we block Mythcreant or not? I'll say this. Mythcreant has provided a credible story with enough back up and support if you look for it, which is not something that Zdimensia has ever done in the past that I am aware of.

I accept that a lot of the above does not offer definite proof, but I am also aware that it, for the most part, can provide an alternate point of view when it comes to Mythcreant and their actions. Even in the best case scenario it is an unfortunate amount of coincidences and similarities between a banned user and a newbie, that could under a certain light been seen as the newbie being the banner user trying to get around said ban. If more evidence comes to light that could change my view on this case, then obviously I will review it and potentially change my status from there. But with all the evidence that we have at this moment, after I have looked through it, and done my research on it, I would say that we do not have enough evidence to say that Mythcreant is Zdimensia, and so the ban that was placed upon them is both unfair and unjust. I am not saying that they are definitely innocent, merely that we do not have enough evidence to definitely say they are guilty. And, if we are a community that can deliver justice, as I and others believed we should be, then that lack of evidence would mean that Mythcreant is innocent until proven guilty.

Novastorme

One for the lighter political stuff in the main chatting category that people would be happy with, and another for the heavier stuff in either it's own category or in a category with other, generally heavier stuff that could be ignored/blocked out by those that don't want to see it.

Also I vote for a writing stuff channel, but this might as well be just a formality considering the fact that I did suggest it.

And a suggestion- there are currently three mods total, only two of whom are regular visibly active. We could use more- at the moment, it feels like I'm always on call and only rarely have backup. This is not a good way to mod- as we're discussing the role of mods, we should also talk about how many there should be.