Which means I assume for the most part Conservative/Right leaning Brits will probably love her, but the left leaning ones, which to me it seems the majority of our British Boarders, and I would say all boarders, will have a differing opinion.

I will be interested to see the chart of leanings that I think hS is putting together. I suspect the vast majority of boarders will fall on the Left side.

It's even on video. This guy is insane.

I'm sorry to say this, but I have to disagree with you on Israel. There is significant archeological evidence to suggest that the Jews lived in Israel in ancient times. In fact, the historian Josephus, who lived at the time of the Roman Empire, actually outlines the events that led to the Jews getting kicked out of Israel, I believe it was the Bar Kochba revolt. It was at this point that the Jews, for the most part were kicked out of Israel, which later became Palestine, I believe as a result of the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

What I'm saying is that it's way more complicated than that. Just wanted to bring it to your attention. It's really a fascinating story, the story of the Jews. Here's a link to just a small bit of what I'm talking about. Granted, it looks at things from a Biblical perspective, sort of, but it's much more scientific in its approach and it's documenting the history of Judaism and the Jewish people.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html

Also, to go off on a rabbit trail, I have found during my College research recently that Hezbollah (or Hizbollah, however it's spelled) as well as Hamas are both receiving guns and money from Iran. So, I think that there are a lot of factors behind the problems with Hamas and Hezbollah, but things are not as simple as a plain old peace talk. It's infuriating, really.

Oh well. What can ya do, but keep doing the same old thing. The world is an insane place.

It's complicated.
1) It should be noted that a peace process isn't an end in and of itself, unlike what some people think. It's a means to and end (peace, obviously), and not the sole means.
2) There have been some border incidents involving Hizballah recently. However, peace with Hizballah is downright pointless since they're basically the Ayatollah regime's stooges. Peace with the Lebanese government is desirable once they actually start functioning.
3) The difference between the IRA and our garden variety terrorists (Hamas, Hizballah, PIJ, etc etc) is best summed up by this anecdote: the commissioner of the Met was interviewed after 7/7; he expressed surprise the terrorists did not phone ahead of time to warn of the bombs. That's a very telling difference between organisations like the IRA (and our own homegrown variety back from before 1948 for that matter) and Islamic Jihadists. Therefore, the things that apply to the IRA don't necessarily apply to our situation here.
4) Just noting that the 'we were here first' argument is blarney; Tacitus mentions Jews in Palestine long before Arabs were even a thing, and he's not exactly philosemitic.

First off, of course socialism includes property rights. I'm calling for something like Sweden's system, not gulag-era USSR! No one* wants to abolish all private property, that's absurd.

Strictly speaking, we already have, and have had for some time, parts of a socialist system. They worked pretty well until Reagan and then Bush started dismantling them. For example: public, i.e. tax-funded, education**. Social security - a tax-funded safety net for retirees and seniors. EBT/food stamps - a safety net for families who can't afford to buy food. (Spare me the lists of alleged abuses, please, if anyone's thinking it. I have known far too many people whose parents relied on food stamps in highschool and still couldn't get their kids enough to eat in the summers.)

So here's my query. A hypothetical man has a wife and two children. He also has four houses, two of which are sprawling estates and the other two of which are country homes. He inherited enough money to put him through business and law school, and then spent 6-12 years as an executive of a major bank. When the bailouts happened, his company didn't have enough money to pay his high-end six-figure salary and that of all their workers, because too many loan customers, who didn't have the money to go to business or law school, and therefore work as cashiers or bus drivers or window-washers, could no longer pay their mortgage.

How much money - like say, how many millions, or billions, of dollars does this man have to have in his bank account before the law says, okay, that's more money than any one person could ever spend, not counting the trust funds for his two kids – now we're going to tax you at a higher rate so the several hundred families who live in the shadow of your mansion can afford to send their kids to a state school?

Because that's where capitalism leads. If this man - who, as I'm sure you know, is both hypothetical and very very real, finds out that he has cancer, he can go to the finest doctors and the best hospitals and, if his health is okay, he has a good chance of recovery. If one of his bank's poorer tenants finds out they have cancer, they will almost certainly not be able to afford treatment, and will almost certainly sicken and die, because good health insurance is expensive and treatment is impossible to afford without it. I fail to understand how the idea of “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” can lead to a literal price on the human life. And don't even get me started on the "justice" system***.

Capitalism may well be "what America was set up for." That's arguable. Certainly (most of) the founders were interested in maintaining a landed aristocracy upper class, and a hierarchy of landless non-citizens with fewer rights. But I don't particularly care. The founders were neither saints nor prophets, and the Constitution is neither a sacred document not a magic scroll. Among other things, it contains the 3/5 Compromise.

So, fine. America's not set up for socialism, but capitalism. Okay. Then let's fix that, because I'm rather tired of the idea that a government owes more to its wealthy citizens than it does to its poor.




*^{Some people absolutely want to dismantle the concept of private property, but they are 1) a tiny minority, 2) demonstrably hypocrites, and 3) not socialists, nor even Marxists generally speaking, but anarchists.}

**My problem with this is it generally is divided into district-wide income tax, which created vast gaps of education quality based on whether one's parents can afford to live in a "good" or a "bad" district. In Connecticut, you have many places where on one side of the river are good schools, with ~20 kids to a class, both gifted and special ed classes, and modern equipment - and on the other side, 40 kids to a class, equipment and textbooks that haven't been updated in years or decades, and no advanced classes to speak of.

***Because, see, if he gets arrested for having an ounce of cocaine in his pocket, he will pay a fine, worth maybe 1/10 of what his cheapest car is worth, and walk free. If one of his bank's tenants has an ounce of marijuana in his pocket, he'll spend monts or years in prison. Because the "free market" led to one person having so much they need never fear a single consequence, and another, inherently of the same human value, to have nothing.

Not trying to be controversial here, so I'll try and tread lightly.

Let me start off by saying I am a Republican. Specifically, I am a Conservative Republican, because apparently, we are splitting ourselves into petty factions now. (Why can't it be simple, like it used to be?) Now, with that in mind, try and see things from my perspective.

That being said, it does objectively look like a Republican will win this one. Most of them have articulated their positions very well, as compared to the Democrats, who are trying to differentiate themselves from Obama for one reason or another. The biggest exception is Bernie Sanders, and that's why people are drawn to him at all. At least he's honest about what he believes, people are saying. Clinton just comes off as sort of, well, fake. And to top it all off, there's this email thing going on. A lot of people seem to think that she's hiding something. That's significant, obviously.

I take issue with the way you characterized people like me, though. Yes, there are people who think Obama is a Communist, myself NOT being one of them. There is some evidence for this theory. For example, his father was an avowed member of the Communist Party of Kenya. Some of his associates growing up were Marxists. Is he a Communist? Who really knows? He's definitely pretty far Left, though. That has never been in question. As for the scumbag thing, we can fling insults at each other all day. It doesn't solve anything. The only ones who throw them around are Internet trolls and angry people in rural America.

I don't want an apology for that. Just trying to set the record straight.

Now, as for Trump... Hooo, boy! He's a character. He's not presidential material, but he's entertaining. The only reason he does as well as he does is because people are upset by the status quo. And even then, Ben Carson is now tied with Trump in some of the polls. He's losing his steam. He'll drop out eventually. The only question is when, and how much entertainment can we get out of him before he goes?

But who knows? A Republican government might be what we need. I'll admit, the Kennedy administration and the Truman administration were good examples of Democrat administrations that even we Republicans secretly admire. We'll just have to wait and see what we get, I guess. (And vote, of course.)

I am convinced that Trump, if he loses the primary, will pull a Theodore Roosevelt, and for the same reason – his ego can't take the party without him.

On Sanders . . .

The Democratic Party, a slim but definite majority, is made up of 40% Sanders supporters and 60% would-be Sanders supporters going "if he were only more popular, he'd have a chance, but I just can't risk such a far-out candidate." This is beginning to frustrate me.

...about a Trump nomination being good for Dems. I think the best chance the Dems have is for Trump to lose the nomination and run as a 3rd party candidate. He will pull the extreme Right vote, leaving the Republicans with the center-Right and opening the door for the Dems no matter who has their nomination.

-Phobos

The sheer level of anger most people seem to have, has everyone flocking to Trump. Even early polls are showing Trump with leads over everyone, including both Sanders and Clinton.

And a couple other points, but this will be all I am saying on it (at least until the parties are decided). As to Sander's being a Left Candidate, that's not necessarily a good thing. First just because something works in Europe does not mean it will work in the US with the US context. Take for example the Civil Law. It works well in Europe, and in-fact most of the rest of the world, but in the US the only true Civil Law Jurisdiction is an absolute mess. Second, does a left government actually work?

Let me set up an example. I know two people, on the far side of middle-aged. Born and raised in the US, both were at points very left aligned Democrats, though they since shifted right of center over a 20 year period. Due to reasons they relocated to France. A country that is well considered to be a left government. And they have problems all over the place, because the government policies clash with elements of American Culture. Let us start with the work week, in France, it is legally mandated 40 work week, one of the people in this couple fits very much into the "Puritan Work Ethic" foreigners often remark about of the US. He would willingly work 50+ hours a week sometimes. The 40 hour mandatory limit is problematic.

There is also the crippling bureaucracy. This couple has been living in France for over a year now, and they still do not have the State Healthcare, because of the bureaucratic quagmire. There are ways around that, called "grease" payments, better known as bribes. This is something that in certain departments is if not tolerated, then expected. These types of payments are incredibly common throughout the world, but I find anathema to the US. We were the leaders in the world on anti-bribery and anti-corruption, that many parties thought we were too restrictive, because these "grease" payments were expected if not encouraged. (I cannot actually speak to the situation of corruption this is secondhand reports from a French National)

My bottom line on this line of questioning is that the US's overall culture may not be an acceptable climate from a Left government, particularly one that is both Left in Social and Economics (like Sanders).

Now the last point, a Republican Government is not necessarily a bad thing. A Tea-Party government on the other hand, that could be problematic. But not all Republicans are Tea Party members. The only true Tea Party candidate in my opinion is Cruz, and he will go nowhere. The Religious Right will also go nowhere.

The 2015 reanalysis of the elements of the political table has led to some shifts. Per the proposed division of the table shown above, the team have crafted the following chart:



Elements which have been reexamined are shown in orange; those which could not be redetected are highlighted in blue. We would not wish to cast doubt upon the work of our esteemed colleagues, but further testing may be required to determine the validity of these substances.

Perhaps the most exciting aspect of the re-testing has been the shifting of Phobos (Ph) and Iximaz (Ix) into the same region as Hieronymus (Hm). If these three elements are in fact one and the same, the academic world will be shaken to the core. The reassignment of Desdendelle (Dd) and Darkotas (Dk) to refer to the same element, while also significant, is far less prominent.

Other shifts have been equally pronounced. The movement of PoorCynic (Pc) up two periods, and its replacement by the newly-identified element World-Jumper (Wj) has been noted, as has the identification of an entire new block, shown in brown and containing the most reactive elements yet discovered. (The failure to obtain a sample of doctorlit (Dl) is surprising, given the unreactiveness of this element).



This is an exciting time in the field of politicoprotectorate chemistry. The potential identicality of Ph and Ix opens whole new fields of possible compounds, based on the Ix-Dd and Ns-Ph bonds. We look forward to seeing the future work that is doubtless forthcoming.

~

(I'm a chemist. Did you notice? ^_^)

(Hardric, you popped in just south of Iximaz/Hieronymus on the previous charts. Since this one didn't have labels and all.)

hS

And apparently I'm almost the centre of the Board.

Perhaps in time I will write about the fortress of the Vowel Overlord.

So we are all towns this time around instead of people? Interesting.

In the little village of Scapegrace, life continued as it had for many years. The free peoples tilled their lands in the iron-rich soils beyond the River's reach when it flooded, as rivers are wont to do. They grew tomatoes, turnips, peas, beans, sugar beet; sensible things, things that lasted long enough for the surplus to reach Central City by caravan or one of the Popular Dirigible Company's freighter blimps. The seasons came and went, but the years seemed to turn slower somehow, and the rich red earth fed all.

The call came from Central City, and the Centrists from Iximaz in particular were anxious to treat with the villagers. So they got what they could of the summer's blood-orange harvests in and began to assemble in the village square. They joined hands, as one, and waited for the Power to summon forth a representative.

Any individual from Scapegrace could touch upon the Power, but alone they could cast but a few sparks, enrich the earth, fix a blown gasket on a tractor. In concert? All the villagers together had cast one treaty to the Red Power, and did so every twenty years, after the fifth mayoral election. It kept the sun hanging in the sky, kept pests at bay, let their crops grow tall and their children grow strong. Scapegrace was a place of mild winters and lazy summers, with the wind blowing eastward to cool the harvest teams' collective brows. The Power did this, as long as people thought it would, and worked to make it work.

It was this power that so intrigued the young woman from Central City, her graduation wand from the Iximaz School of Witchcraft and Wizardry still shiny from lack of use - and no matter how much the little scrits back at the School had said so, it wasn't the thought of muscular young farmhands of all genders working up a sweat beneath a burnt-blue August sky. She alighted delicately from the helicopter as it landed (crashing would not be quite the right term) in the beet field that was at present lying fallow and giving sterling service as a helipad. She'd been expecting wood, this far south, but Scapegrace was apparently ably served by the brick-kilns at Artell. As she reached the square, she slowed and stopped.

There was the Red Power, flickering above the swaying, singing villagers like a demon holding court, powerful as a hurricane, strong as a mountain's roots. Strong here, anyway, where there were still those who believed. It was said in the village that the Power took on a different shape for everyone, and yet the general image remained the same; a human figure, holding a worker's tool in an experienced hand. To the young Centrist, the Red Power resembled her old Ancient Runes instructor, but with a burlier cast than the mantis-like academic had ever had.

As she stood, powerless to move, the Red Power descended from above the village, the rune-patterned cracks in its skin glowing like starlight as it moved. The marks intensified as it moved towards her, until the woman was all but blinded by it.

It reached out its hand, that was and was not a hand.

She took it.

And the Red Power was gone, its task done.

The villagers of Scapegrace came out of their trance like children roused from sleep on a long train ride. They looked around, and a small child ran towards the new arrival.

"Da, da! Look! 'S'an angel!"

A slim farmhand, with close-cut blond hair and the kind of smoothly toned body that the woman liked best, strode over and picked the little boy up. "Never mind him, young friend," he said over his shoulder, "he don't mean owt by... it..."

And he stared at the woman's hands, and with good reason, for they glowed like stars.

"Please, come with me... we asked the Power ter choose, an' it chose you, friend. Yer must be took to Mayor Cassandra an' welcomed proper. What do we call'n, other than friend of the People?"

"Gabrielle," the woman said, and shortly thereafter she heard it cheered.

---

Ain't no magic like socialist magic. =]

So I took the test. Unfortunately, there's no Neutral option, so a few of the answers may be slightly off /shrugs/ Either way--I did the thing! No clue how accurate it is for anything, but I did the thing!

Economic Left/Right: -5.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.38

Wheeeee.

(Actually, being some weird sort of Leftist (??) doesn't really surprise me. I think I tend to think I'm one; problem is, the definitions have apparently shifted, or something, so supposedly Left parties are apparently not actually in line with what I believe and so on...? Whatever. Doesn't matter--I'm not exactly going to go 'Ha! A left-of-center party! I don't care what their policies are like or who's involved, I'm gonna vote for them! Yay!'

I did do the thing, though. Wonder where I fall on the graphs...looks rather like I could be in any of the evils on this one, I'm not sure exactly where I fall in that intersecting bit and can't be bothered to figure it out right now. Guess I'll just wait for the next update.)

~DF

Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.74

... I'm roughly Gandhi according to the example chart.

...who swears he's going to head out soon guys, really. Just need to sharpen the old sword, and off I go.

And in the other, I'm barely toeing the line between being a fairly good person, on the whole, and supporting an anarcistic revolution. I mean, I won't start it or anything, but you know, should one show up...

And in the third, I am throwing dragons at eleven year olds, praying I can brute-force around the fact I have no idea what I'm doing, and handing shiny badges and disks to those who realize I'm super incompetent and only stumbled my way into running a gym. (Though, to be fair, the dragons are very loyal. Magic of Friendship and all that.)

...I don't know what this says about me, really.

I always thought I was Lawful, but apparently I'm TN. (-4.88 economic, -3.33 social).

I came down as -2.72 on the Libertarian/Authoritarian. But if you were using one of the Average responders which were in the lower-left quadrant, then it makes sense. I knew I was more Right leaning than the majority of the community.

Not sure I like the analogy that Right is evil though.

As for falling of the diagonal, for me it is not surprising at all, I am a social liberal, but an economic conservative. And the fact that I get considered "far-right" is also telling of the average of the community, because I am a centrist if anything.

I hereby make Iximaz the Queen of Love and Beauty!
My second decree is that the losers of the Friendship Cup are to be sent underground. Mimes get send underground anyway.

I like to think of myself as Lawful Evil. :P

Also, why does Des get to be king? I didn't vote for him.

-Phobos, the Truly Neutral

-Sailor July

but you're not the only conservative on the Board, from what it seems here. Looks like, as always, it depends on the topic.

Is the Stock Market not a form of globalized economy? A means of transferring and accruing wealth for any assortment of businesses in the world? Just something to ponder.

Also, the quiz never says anything about how you are supposed to vote. That's why there is a disagree button, mate. If it offends you, say that you "Strongly Disagree." Unless the very presence of such an idea is dumbfounding to you, in which case, I feel we need to have a few political talks.

To respond to specific points:

2. Yes, question four is supposed to be racist. It increases your Totalitarian points. Nazis and KKK and all that jazz.

3. That's because it is one of the greatest championed quotes of Marx. Otherwise known as, the author of the Communist Manifesto. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

4. Stock brokers, and those who make money shifting money around. Bankers, investors, brokers. Those sorts. At least, that's how I took it.

6. Yeah, to be honest, I have no idea why that is there either. I think it's supposed to play off some idea that liberal hippies say that anything can be art man, where conservative grumps say art must have some form to it. Consider it a dud question, it won't affect the numbers much.

It really folds everything down when it's really not as simple as what can be pinned on an axis, and it really could use some refining, overall.

Because while I'm arguably conservative, and haven't really changed so, it's harder to actually go into the how with something like this.

That's why I've been adjusting us around Pippa's Centrist, which gives this; you're right there on the Social centreline, a little left of centre.

Interesting that our two military types were in almost the same place last year, but have since moved apart. Quirky.

hS

And they aren't fond of Russians.

It's funny because I agree with various socialistic ideas. Just not as far as you do.

This is us so far, with everyone moved up/right 2.5 in accordance with Pippa's Centrist. Yellow is 2014 dots for those who have them - looks like July's gone up-right, Iximaz has gone down-left, and I've... not moved. ^_^

Here's the editable version.

hS

We theorised last year that every user entry gets skewed to the left; the fact that you're calling yourself centrist but coming down left of everyone except the Greens is in direct agreement with that.

For comparison purposes, then, I think I'll be adding 2.5 to everyone's Economic values, putting you exactly in the centre. Should we do the same thing for Social values? I'm honestly not sure, people don't have a ready answer for 'where are you on the authoritarian/libertarian scale?'. Perhaps it's best to leave it.

hS

They changed the examples from last year. I went from being the Dalai Lama to being Gandhi.

I'll take it. :P

if they think it will help sales (or website views nowadays). And pundits will give any controversial opinion, because they know it will be printed and get publicity. Don't take any of them seriously.

Anyway, sorry I misunderstood your post. I saw the Subject line, and thought you were personally addressing the UK Right on this board, so I took it rather personally.

(To be honest, I'm more Centrist than truly Right. But I still qualify as Right by your definition.)

I do not consider Pippa's post(s?) to be personal attacks. Even if I were actually a member of the Labour Party, I wouldn't.

I consider them to be a valid difference in opinion of how politics should work. Pippa's Ghost thinks that the goal of a party should be 'what attracts floating voters'. I'd rather see Labour - heck, or any party! - do and support what they think is best for the country - or, really, the world. If the only way to get votes is to abandon any position you think is worth holding... then what are you getting votes for, except to get a comfy seat in the Commons?

That's rhetorical, I already know the answer: because those positions you are able to hold onto are going to be better than the other side would do if they get the comfy seats. As I say, that's a valid position - but it's not one I hold.

hS

He made an unprovoked attack saying everyone who disagreed with him was "wrong".

I know I have anger issues, but I don't see how he should be allowed to get away with that.