Subject: I think I have a problem
Author:
Posted on: 2019-11-22 13:05:34 UTC
I think I have a problem. Whenever someone mentions Sauron or Saruman I think of Saruman the white or the dark lord Sauron.
And Gandalf sold fireworks? I guess he’s called Gandalf the grey because of the smoke made from those fireworks?
Inspired by hS's fictional languages post last week, I've been going through a bit of a High Valyrian phase and thought it would be fun to have a go at translating some boarder names into HV. hS did a similar thing a while back with various Middle-earth languages, so returning the favour.
My Dothraki is not good enough at this point sadly, but perhaps one day.
Picking a few Agents, Boarders etc whose name etymology I know:
Jay would become Kastalāra ('blue-crow')
Acacia would become Qanaguēse ('sharp-tree')
Makes-Things would become Sētenonys ('smith, crafter')
Mysterious Somebody would become Tolmīhaissaros (literally 'strange person')
Elcalion ('follower of the bright star') would become Qēloalbiopasābio
Huinesoron ('eagle of the shadow') would become Ūlioazmasȳndro (literally 'great falcon of the shadow'; HV appears not to have a word for eagle)
Neshomeh ('soul') would become Gīso ('of the soul')
Phobos ('fear') would become: Izūgarys (noun formed from 'izugagon', 'to fear')
Anyone else want a HV name? You'll need to know the meaning of your name (if not English) and vocab might not be enough to get a translation, but I can do my best.
Elcalion, translational
Notary and Ave have already been requested, so... why not?
[Taken from the writings of Rúmil, Loremaster of Tirion]
Amongst the lesser spirits called the Maiar are those seven named by the Noldor the Tirissë Vórëa, the Enduring Vigil. Theirs is the guardianship of the very roots of Arda, that it may be maintained against the Void. Few have ever seen them, yet their names are spoken in every tongue of Valinor and Middle-earth alike.
First-named is the Fisher, Halatir to the Noldor; his name was adopted by the Sindar as Heledir, yet it is said among the Loremasters that among the Ainur he was called Rušurullu, the Fire on the Water. His is the watch on the Gates of Night and Morn, and the ships of light that pass through them at dawn and at eve.
Second the tales name Morcarnë, whose name is understood by the Noldor to mean the Red Night, but by the Sindar as Morgand, the Darkness Emboldened; and of this it is said that her true name is Mirubhôzênaškad, the Circler of Wine, and all others but imitations thereof. She stands her guard between the Vigil and the World That Is, that the servants of the Melkor might not come upon them unawares.
Third comes She Who Reads, Tengwaní who in Middle-earth is named Parvilui, the Book-lover. Her guard is set upon the fabric of Arda itself, and by this cause is she known to the Loremasters as Akašānithīr, the Ordained Light.
The fourth of the Vigil is remembered only in laments among the Free Peoples, for it is said that he was cast down in battle when the world was young. Quettacomyala he is named, and Dír-Pethoth the Gatherer of Words, but in their songs the Valar call him Delgūmākašān, the Dome of Law, and ascribe to him the wardenship of the deeps of time.
Ilanya the Unweaver stands apart, keeping her vigil over the tapestries of Vairë in the Halls of Mandos; Gúnethril the shades call her that venture there from the eastern lands, yet Ullunaškadigas is she to the Ainur, the Ring of Fire and Water.
Beside her works Tyaro, the Agent of Mandos, whose responsibility is the threads of fate as yet unspun, he who the Sindar name Ceredir; yet at the first he was called Aþâradelgûmâ, the Vault Implicit.
Little known among the Vigil is Tecilnarwa, the Scarlet Pen, Golldegil in the east; and yet her role is beyond compare. For it is said that on the day that she and she alone should decree it, the Vigil will stand down at last from their guard, and all the world should be cast into the Void; therefore is she named of old Ayanûzaþarošošarušur, the Coming Fire of Change.
[Here are recorded the words of Parmiel of Valmar: after the passing of the Third Age and the final retreat from the Great Lands, a new name has been heard for Tecilnarwa. None can say whence it began, but often among the libraries of Aman is whispered the name of Hyalin Tenala, the Oncoming Form.]
All translations roughly as stated; where not otherwise translated, the Sindarin is identical to the Quenya. The fact that the Sindarin for 'She flies/wanders' is Renia amused me so much I had to carry it on into the Valarin. Given my transliteration of Morgan's name earlier, I then went back and changed the Valarin names of the others to incorporate [parts of, looking at you Notary] their Gallifreyan names, where known.
As for Parmiel's note - I make no apologies and have no regrets. ^_~
hS
These are all lovely. Though goodness, Ayanûzaþarošošarušur is a bit of a mouthful—how on Middle-earth is it pronounced?
And then you say:
ay as in EYE a as in cAt nûz as in NOOZ a as in cAt tha as in THAt ro as in ROck šo as in SHOt ša as in SHAll ruš as in RUSH ur as in ER.
Eye-a-nooz-a-tha-ro-sho-sha-rush-er.
As to where the emphasis would fall: your guess is as good as mine!
hS
I love that making them all into Maiar leads to such wonderfully evocative names, and that the Notary still gets the One Good DeeDubs Joke I Ever Told worked in there. Parmiel is entirely right to record that name. =]
Or rather, since Kaitlyn comes from Catherine, which is technically of unknown origin, and her LJ name has rather more emotional weight, translating Celebestel:
Sindarin: Celebestel is already Sindarin! It means 'Silver Hope'. There are actually two words for 'hope' in Sindarin; amdir is the more common word, indicating "an expectation of good, which though uncertain has some foundation in what is known". "I hope someone else translates Kaitlyn's name" would be amdir, because, well, we're in a translation thread. In contrast, estel might more accurately be called 'faith': rather than being based in knowledge or evidence, it's the belief that everything will be okay, because the One wouldn't let it be otherwise in the end. 'Faith and the hope that comes with it' is a nice translation. (Celeb is just silver.)
Quenya: Telpestel (Silver Hope) - 'Estel' was adopted into Quenya (or possibly both languages retain a common original); Telpe, telep- is the usual Quenya word for the metal. It would probably be pronounced with a bit of a y sound after the T.
Adunaic: Gimilabâr (Star-fidelity) - The Adunaic name Gimilzôr seems to use 'stars' to translate the initial 'silver' in Quenya Telemnar, and who am I to argue? 'fidelity' or 'strength' is the best I can do for estel.
Valarin: Ibriaþarakašân (Silver Time of Commandment) - akašân actually literally means 'He says', referring to the One; it seemed appropriate. 'Silver' here is a tentatively isolated word from the name of Telperion.
Black Speech: Krimpumghâsh (Bound Fire) - I feel like Orcs would see hope, or especially faith, as a trap - a binding (krimpum is literally 'bindness' here). Fire for silver is the only real option, though Krimpumnazg, 'bound ring', could also work.
hS
PS: One possible etymology of Kaitlyn > Katerina has it coming from the goddess Hekate. One possible meaning of her name is 'she who works her will', or 'she whose will be done'. Given my use of 'commandment' in the Valarin above, it's very amusing to consider translations like Q. Axaniel, A. Hi-Êruvô, and V. Akašānayanūz, all meaning some form of 'She who was ordained by the One'. But I'm pretty sure most of Middle-earth would string me up for blasphemy if I did that. ^_^ ~hS
Now, as a single person, I think I can translate her name into a full Tau'sia name. Let's give it a shot!
So Celebestel means Silver Hope in the original Sindarin, so let's stick with that as a base theme. Silver has associations with water for the Tau'faan, much as it does with certain human cultures, to the point where fejel'fri (silver-mouth) and por'fri'ea (mouth full of water) are both terms to describe people who are what we'd call silver-tongued. I think this plops Kaitlyn square in the Water caste. We can add a little poesy to Kaitlyn's sept of origin too; septs are almost akin to nations within the T'au Empire, and as such I think it would be fine to add a more poetic version of America's famous nickname (no, not "the Great Satan", the other one) in this context as Earth is still divided. We can also add more than just the one name, because, well, T'au names are similar to accolades. They get a whole collection. =]
As such, here's my work:-
Por'vre Eia'li'an Fejel'oshi Gun'ran'yi (Silvertide Flower of Compassion, Magister of the Water Caste of the Wide Free Land Sept, lit: Water Caste Magister Wide-Free-Land Silver-Tide Compassion-Flower)
Silvertide, as she would likely be known to her friends, refers to the tide of charm and hope that she bears; Flower of Compassion implies that her presence is a gift of compassion to those who meet her. Eia'li'an is a version of the Land of the Free, and also it sounds a bit like alien so I couldn't help myself. Lastly, magister is a median rank, neither too far above or too far below another.
Hope she likes it. =]
I love how much thought you've put into it, and you're right - the 'alien' gag is totally worth it. ^_^
So, while we're Tau'ing it up: is that 'Por'vre' the same as the one in my names? I guess that makes Gue' the 'human' element; have you decided that's not a necessary part of the name?
Also! How mix-and-matchable are the pieces of these names? If I wanted to splice mine together, combining 'Eagleshade' with the 'Historian' element, would it be as simple as just plopping them side by side?
Also also! I would never try to write silly Tau-themed Silvertide/Eagleshade fanfic (and certainly never call it something like A Night on the Tau'n), but if I did, how would two Tau Magisters of different septs interact?
hS
I didn't really want to add the Gue' prefix, since we were doing a solely-human approach. If I was taking the approach that septs can be Earth nations, it doesn't make sense to include it when what it literally means is "youngest", as in "youngest sibling", and it refers to humans because they're seen as the younger brothers of the T'au. T'au can be a trifle arrogant, in case that wasn't clear. =]
Actually, if we're doing yours, lemme have another crack at it:-
Por'vre Ha'shutoal'an El'anuk'erra B'rai'taal (Eagle-shadow Shepherd-of-Time-Preservation, Water-caste Magister of the Rainy Small Island Sept)
As for how two Water Caste magisters would interact: however you want them to! There isn't much in the way of competition beyond the friendly rivalry common to, say, later entries in the Pokémon games; to do otherwise would be in violation of the Tau'va.
Also, for reference, there's a Tau'sia word "oru'mi", which means "startlingly beautiful". I feel that information would be pertinent to your project.
Celebestel would become Gēlenjaelarys in High Valyrian ('Silver hope', my take at what the two words Gēlenkys Jaelarys would become as a compound name), and Athzalarvizhadoon in Dothraki ('hope from silver') from athzalar ('hope') and the ablative form of vizhadi ('silver').
Alternatively, 'She who works her will' in High Valyrian would be Ziksogaomakio, 'one-who-takes-action-as-she-wishes', from ziksoso (as one wishes), gaomagon ('to act') and -kio (an agentive suffix). In Dothraki, this would be Zalatikhatakeesi 'one who does the results of their wants', from zalat ('to want something to happen'), -ikh (a suffix meaning 'the result of something'), tat ,'to do' and -ak, 'agentive suffix' with the feminine ending -eesi.
Elcalion
Athzalarvizhadoon and Ziksogaomakio both sound like the sort of thing you chant, possibly to summon something (someone?). Brilliant stuff. ^_^
hS
...could translate to Tikvat-Kesef, תקות כסף--no, I have that wrong. That's hope of silver, not silver hope (with silver as a noun rather than an adjective).
What I actually want is Tikvah Ksufah, תקווה כסופה--silver (adj.) hope. There we go. Rather pretty, I think!
~Z
(Also, thank you for the Khuzdul! Longer response to that will happen eventually, but suffice it to say I'm pretty happy with the name options. Also, look up makam or maqam and prepare to be amused.)
It's got a very nice rhythm to it. :)
Maqam... okay, you're right, that is hilarious. XD It seems like the sort of pun Tolkien would have claimed not to have created, like how it's pure fluke that Numenor ended up being pretty much named Atlantis.
hS
This seems like a good place to test it out! (This isn't the main language, but a sort of extremely old-fashioned symbolic one, which I think favours more general terms rather than specifics. Also, there are only twelve letters/symbols/runes which each represent the concepts, so it may be a little confusing...)
Jay becomes Parsine-Elcran (bird, literally "air-life")
Acaciabecomes Crubint-Sarlissa (literally "harm-plant)
(See what I mean about experimental?)
Makes-Things becomes Andris-Elcran ("creation-person")
Mysterious Somebody becomes Frentia-Elcran("shadow-person")
Elcalion is a trickier one... "bright star" would either be Minalli or Crubint, but I don't know about "follower" - maybe Lussand I'll go with Minalli-Lussand ("star-follower")
Huinesoron becomes Crubint-Parsine-Elcran-Frentia ("harm-causing air-life shadow")
Neshomeh becomes Magnis (although I'm kind of equating "soul" with a slightly different concept involving magic) Phobos would probably be Dallstin (which represents most "negative" emotions and stuff)
So... these don't exactly sound pretty, but it was a good exercise for me, at least.
Toki Pona tries to pull off 120-odd, but 12 is a whole new level. I assume it's designed for naming rather than sentences? It's sort of like a list of elements, I guess; the idea of 'everything is made up from the [12] elements' has a certain resonance with various historical concepts.
Out of curiousity, what is the actual meaning of Minalli and Lussand? I would assume the former was either 'fire' or 'light', but then why would you have hesitated to choose them over 'harm' to mean bright star? Lussand I can't even guess. (And dare I ask what the last two runes are?) (And, come to think of it, does the language have a name?)
... come to think of it, I have a language that functions on similar lines, with each letter in a word having a meaning. 'Snowblaze' would be something like:
Ohydukkadg - letter for letter, 'one time-peace-at times-motion-others-many-complexity-now-motion-power'. Each word is pretty much grammatically 'backwards' compared to English, with the split between the two Ks (both 'plural' and 'complexity'). So the translation is something like: Many others fell over time bringing peace at one time, but power moves now to make complexity. Snow+fire.
hS
It was designed as part of a magic system for an original story I’m working on. Yes, it is designed for naming (or sort of the basic elements of spells) although in-universe it’s rarely used by now.
The reason for the confusion is that my original plan was to have three sets of four symbols: seasons, classical elements, plus life, death, nature and magic. But then Minalli meaning summer and sun and warmth, and Crubint meaning fire started to overlap a bit. And the other problem is that I ended up with a basic list and then I saw a name and thought “I need a new meaning, which is the least unsuitable?” Which led to Lussand, original meaning water.
I can’t be bothered to check my previous post, but the complete list is Andris, Minalli, Frentia, Stofea, Lussand, Crubint, Ralith, Parsine, Elcran, Dallstin, Sarlissa, Magnis in the same order I listed the meanings earlier.
And it’s called “Old Vandarian”, not to be confused with “New Vandarian” which is the slightly more normal language.
Jay is simple--Orvani, spelled עורבני. That's what the dictionary gives me, anyway.
Acacia also has a direct translation: Shita, שיטה. Emphasis is likely on the final syllable, and that's -ee, not -ih (shee-ta)
Makes-Things...Oseh-Dvarim, עושה דברים? Maybe Yotzer-Dvarim, יוצר-דברים--that changes it from simply 'maker [of] things' to 'creator' or 'producer' ([of] things).
Mysterious Somebody could just be Mishehu Mistori (מישהו מסתורי)...but I prefer Ploni Mistori, פלוני מסתורי. 'Ploni' is the term for, as the dictionary says, 'so-and-so', or an unidentified person (in the masculine form here). So for a pronunciation guide we have ploh-nee mee-stoh-ree.
And now we get to Boarders!
I'm, uh, going to go out of order and do the easier names first :D
Neshomeh: so this could be viewed as cheating...but behold! 'Neshomeh' is actually Yiddish, by which I mean it's the Yiddishized pronunciation of the Hebrew word for soul: Neshamah, נשמה. Funnily enough, Neshamah is actually a popular name--see Neshama Carlebach, daughter of the famous Shlomo Carlebach. There's also Nefesh, נפש, but it's not as pretty a word and is used in names of organizations more than as people's names. It's the word used in phrases like 'good for the soul', whereas Neshamah is more poetic (and spiritual, arguably).
Phobos could be Pakhad, פחד, the common term for fear...but there are fancier words! I'm partial to Eymah, אימה, which the dictionary says is 'terror, fear' or '(poetic) awe, reverence'. There's also Yir'ah, יראה ('fear, terror, dread'), but that's often used in a religious context as well ('piety, God-fearingness'), so that's what it brings to mind for me. Let's go with Eymah.
And now we go more complex. Okay.
Elcalion: Okev HaKokhav HaBahir, עוקב הכוכב הבהיר, is a pleasant literal translation, but I think we can get something nicer. There's a famous quote about the Biblical Aaron, which describes him as a lover of peace and a pursuer of peace--'ohev shalom v'rodef shalom', אוהב שלום ורודף שלום. If I put that together with another word (can't find an alternate word for 'star', which is interesting--I'd vaguely thought there might be one, probably because 'sun' and 'moon' have two), we get...this: Rodef HaKokhav HaZoher, רודף הכוכב הזוהר--Pursuer of the Radiant Star (or the Brilliant Star, depending how you translate the word 'zoher').
Huinesoron: 'Eagle' is...good G-d, it's apparently Ay'it, עיט. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Why's that? Because, as the helpful dictionary note explains, a lot of people made a mistake and wrote about eagles using the term Nesher, נשר, which is actually a vulture. I knew Nesher wasn't the real term for an eagle, but I'm still very unfamiliar with Ay'it. In a very simple translation, you could be Ay'it HaTzel (עיט הצל) or Nesher HaTzel; now, that sounds nice enough, but it isn't very poetic. Unfortunately, there's only so poetic I can go here, which seems a shame; even so, by slipping into plural, we can get Ay'it HaTzlalim, עיט הצללים--Eagle of the Shadows. I tried 'shadowy', but that didn't get me anywhere nice-sounding that didn't have a different meaning (such as foggy or dusky. 'Shadowy' in direct translation is apparently...'full of shadows'. Yup.)
Phew. Easier than I thought! With, true to form, more and more commentary as I continued. Do let me know if pronunciation of anything isn't clear.
~Z
I'm amused by the fact that 'Nesher HaTzel' sounds like what you get if you take 'Huinesoron' and shake it around vigorously in a Hebrew box; I know it's not all that close, but there's enough sounds shared between them...
As for the final form, I love that 'Tzl' in the middle to bits; I'm probably saying it wrong, but it's really satisfying. It reminds me of the Welsh 'LL', in that it's a bunch of consonants that the English tongue isn't used to putting together.
As thanks for your hard work, I've done something I wouldn't normally. Khuzdul (Dwarvish) is supposedly based on the Semitic languages, but has no words anywhere close to 'we' or 'sing'. (The best I could do would be something like Inbaraimênu, 'horn upon you', ie, we're playing our trumpets at you, but that's a nasty looking kludge.) But... there is a very large Neo-Khuzdul corpus. I think it was started by David Salo, famed Sindarin scholar, but his site is gone, and the current centre of post-Tolkien Dwarvish appears to be the Dwarrow Scholar.
In Neo-Khuzdul, I've come up with four ways to translate Zingenmir:
-Makmathi is the basic phrase 'we sing'. It seems to come from a verb based on the consonants [KMTh]; the initial 'm' is the pronoun, while the vowels indicate the form of the verb.
-Makammathi is an intensified form of the verb, with the middle consonant doubled and a vowel inserted before it. It means 'we still sing', or 'we continue to sing'. I'm imagining it as a defiant statement.
-Nâkmathi is based on the same verb, but here the added 'na' indicates 'We sing together.
-Nâkammathi is another is another 'energetic' form, obviously enough meaning 'We still sing together'.
hS
Skater is probably hard to translate; I expect roller-skating and skateboarding are not multiversal sports. If you can step up to the challenge, though, that would be cool!
And sadly, I do not know any conlangs except a bit of Newspeak. (Quite frankly, everyone's name here would probably become Crimespeak. And then it'd become Unalive.)
Quenya: Vinya Quermaquen (New Wheel-rider) - 'Rider' would normally be translated roquen, but that's a compound meaning 'horse-person'. So you get to be a 'wheel-person'. (Hilariously enough, querma, the only Quenya word for 'wheel', actually means 'spinning wheel' or 'turntable'.)
Sindarin: Rasgdailben Gîw (New Footcart-rider) - Again 'rider' is actually 'person'. Sindarin has no word for 'wheel', so you get wagon+feet; if I'd used the singular Rasg+dâl, it might have sounded like you ride about in a wheelbarrow.
Adunaic: Idô-Rothkarbatun (Now Trackhorse-man) - Yikes. Idô is 'now'; I've used it here for 'this is who Skater is now'. Roth is 'track', describing an unpaved road, but derived from a term that means the furrow made by ploughing; the intent is 'narrow line', as might be made by a skate. Karbat is 'pair of horses' (from karab+at); by denoting them as a natural pair, which horses generally aren't, I've tried to indicate that they're metaphorical. Finally, -un is an explicit masculine marker, put in to make the name about the skater, not the skates. The female equivalent would be -in.
Valarin: Aþar Šebethašata (Fixed-time air-hair) - Aþar means 'fixed time' or 'festival'; like above, I'm aiming for 'right now'. Air+hair is meant to imply your hair streaming back as you race around. It probably wouldn't be synonymous with 'airhead'. ;)
Black Speech: Globum (Foolishness) - Orcs have no truck with skating, nor with any form of 'personal change and growth'. They just think you're daft.
hS
"Neo" would definitely be Andris, but "Skater..." I'll go with Elcran-Parsin ("person who moves"). Kind of a cop-out, but anything else would probably require inventing a lot of new letters, which I can't really do for this.
That makes you Andris Elcran-Parsin
I have this hunch that 'skater' in Hebrew is...'skater', with a pronunciation more like 'skay-tehr'. Let's find out!
Okay. I stand corrected! 'Skater' is in use as-is, but 'Makhlik' is also pretty popular and seems to be the main term! This makes you...
HaMakhlik HaKhadash, המחליק החדש--The New Skater! Congrats :)
(hah-mahkh-leek hah-khah-dahsh for pronunciation).
~Z
In High Valyrian, you are Arliegrevyaerēbagio, ('new wheel-traveller').
In Dothraki, I have come up with Sashfirverak, ('new round-traveller'), coining the verb firverat 'to skate' (literally 'to round-travel')
Elcalion
Even if the word doesn't exist in canon, you can coin one using existing vocabulary. It's like Minecraft's Creative Mode times four!
Jay Zirqoyithelisa ('bird-of-prey is-blue')
Acacia Feshithmihoon ('tree of thorns')
Makes-Things Movelak ('creator by hand')
Mysterious Somebody Atoqemmemma ('one is-mysterious')
Elcalion Silakshiekrahsani
Huinesoron Kolverzanisshi
Neshomeh Oakah (literally 'worth'/'mettle')
Phobos Athrokhar
Scapegrace Ifadozgaki ('little outlaw')
Wobbles Athfilkazari (I had to construct this, it literally means 'movements like a caterpillar'!)
Notary Vojassokhosoroon ('person of the law')
Cassie Vojozzirvena (literally 'person is-fiery')
SMF Zheana ('beautiful')
doctorlit Koalak Timvirofi ('Healer of great books')
Aurora Morningstar Athyolarshekhoon Shierakaenoon ('birth-of-sun star-of-the-morning')
Zingenmir Hoyalaki ('we sing')
Snowblaze Vorsahesi ('fire of the snow')
SunAndMoon Shekhmajalan
Iximaz Athastokhdeveshizar ('nonsense') or, Ishimaz for a sound-equivalent.
SomeRandomPersonAccount Vojesinasa 'person who changes'
I like Kolverzanisshi - it's got a good rhythm to it.
In exchange, I offer you a bonus name for yourself:
Khuzdul: Ayakibil, 'Upon Silver'. The idea being that your thoughts are on the (silver) stars.
hS
Here's some Tau names as well. I'll only do the names as personal names, as trying to ascertain rank and caste would just be more trouble than it's worth:-
Jay: Anuk'al'xux'la (Small blue bird)
Acacia: Eio'ko'io'co'r'jida (Tree of short spears)
Makes-Things: T'so'ta'cha (Of artful mind and purpose)
Mysterious Somebody: Da'j'kaara'noh (Dark mirror mystery)
Elcalion: Cano'haido'shas (Yearning for the burnished star)
Neshomeh: Ran'la (Person of the soul)
Phobos: Bur'xan'jhi'ran (Divine being of broken spirit)
If anyone wants to do ones for Scapegrace, Wobbles, the Notary, &c, they're more than welcome to =]
(My vocabulary is completely limited, I don't even know where to start...) For Scapegrace, let's say Elcran-Dallstin-Ralith ("person-no-rules") which is about the closest I can get.
Wobbles... Parsine-Parsine, "Chaotic motion"... again, as close as I can get.
Now I have a word for "rules", the Notary can become Ralith-Elcran "Rules-person".
(This is not the kind of thing my language is designed to do in-universe).
Oh dear Lord. I refuse to translate Scapegrace as 'Bat-Bli'ya'al.' (Belial in the anglicization, though it seems to have taken on a new meaning in Christianity?) It does mean that, but it's, uh, also the general term (Biblical) for pretty much any wicked person or evildoer. Ouch. (According to this article in Mosaic, 'bli'ya'al' was taken to be a noun by Jews and a name by Christians--who decided it was either another term for Satan or the name of someone connected to him. Ooookay. Yeah. I'm not translating your name as this).
Which means I need to find something that more closely matches the actual definition of the word 'scapegrace' (Merriam-Webster says 'incorrigible rascal', whatever it is Google's throwing up--Oxford?--goes for 'a mischievous or wayward person'). I've tried other dictionaries: 'scapegrace' there gets me things like the translation of 'scapegoat', and 'schlemiel', which is more along the lines of someone who is unlucky or incompetent.
I'm going to go with Mardanit Kundasit, מרדנית קונדסית, Mischievous Rebel. There aren't very many terms for 'rascal' (one is used for a villain in films, apparently), though 'kundas' as a noun does show up as one (another is 'Pirkhakh', meaning, apparently, 'whippersnapper' :D). This might be a bit closer to 'prankster' than it should be, but it's definitely much better than going, 'hey, wanna be a scapegoat or an extremely wicked person?' So let's stick with that. It's also making me think of the Chameleon Circuit song "Teenage Rebel", which is nice (about the Doctor, if you haven't heard it).
Wobbles is very simply Mitnodedet, מתנודדת ('one who wobbles/is wobbling', feminine form). I rather like that, actually.
The Notary is...HaNotarionit, הנוטריונית apparently. Not too bad!
~Z
What would Aviator (pilot) be? Zeb is a bastardized version of Zev, which is Hebrew for "wolf" which is hardly much of a translation for you. :P
Faolan means "little wolf", and Charlotte is the feminine form of Charles, meaning "free man".
Lorson is a combo of "TayLor and Addison... so what would Lor (Honorable) and Son (self-explanatory) be?
Dax apparently means "water". Which is funny and something I didn't intend, but considering how fluid and changing water is and Dax is fittingly a changeling... :P
(The) Aviator is (Ha)Tayesset, הטייסת. You also have (Ha)Avira'it, האויראית, meaning "the airwoman".
Zeb should actually be Ze'ev, זאב--there's an extra syllable in there that presumably got lost in either anglicization or yiddishization to form Zev.
...giving Faolan's name a Hebrew diminutive to get Ze'evonet, זאבונת amuses me a lot, so I'm going to roll with it. Slipping into Yiddish origins, though it's come into Hebrew, too, you can get Ze'evik, זאביק, which means about the same thing (but masculine form rather than feminine--ze'ev is a male noun. The closest feminine equivalent I can make for that one is Zevele, זאבלה--and that's a diminutive used for both masculine and feminine names, actually, like Sarah-> Sorele and Yossi-> Yoskele. This is pretty much pure Yiddish, though). A masculine equivalent of Ze'evonet would be Ze'evon, זאבון.
Charlotte...hrm. That needs some thought. Think I might come back to her and Lorson, and just tell you that water in Hebrew is Mayim, מים.
~Z
Aviator would be Parsine-Elcran "flying-person".
How can I do "wolf"? I suppose I could do it as "predator" which would be Dallstin-Elcran "Death-Animal"... yeah, that'll do.
By the same logic, Faolan becomes Frentia-Dallstin-Elcran
"Honourable son"? I suppose "honour" would fit together with "rules" and be Ralith and "son" would probably be Andris which would make Ralith-Andris
One of my symbols actually has "water" as its primary meaning, which makes Dax easy at least: Lussand
Scapegrace would be Dorȳbarysitsos, literally 'little disobedience'
Wobbles would be Elēnna, plural form of Elēnnon, 'movement back and forth'
Notary would be Vēttirurnekio, literally 'law observer'
Elcalion Cano'haido'shas
Cassie is a diminutive of Cassandra, from the Greek for "to excel, to shine" and "man".
Probably Magnis-Elcran "(magically) powerful person". Or, for shining as in brightness, Minalli-Elcran
...the word 'hitztayen' can be used for both 'excel' and 'shine' (in the sense of shining talent or the like). This gives us Ish-Mitztayen, איש מצטין, 'excelling/shining man, man who excels/shines'. For a feminine form, we can do Isha-Mitztayenet, אישה מצטינית, though that changes the original meaning a bit.
Mind you, you don't technically need 'man' or 'woman' in there! Because Hebrew is a gendered language, words like 'creator' are never neutral--Makes-Things' translated name is actually '[male] creator [of] things'. So you could be Mitztayen, מצטין (literally '[male] exceller/shiner', less literally '[man who] excels/shines'), or, more likely, Mitztayenet, מצטינת, the feminine form, since this is supposed to be a feminine name.
~Z
Quenya: Lahtanettë. Lahta is the infinitive 'to excel'; nette combines the 'man' and diminutive parts, as 'little girl' or (colloquially) 'pretty little thing'. It's also used as a childish name for the ring finger (not used for the ring in Elvish culture) or the equivalent toe.
Sindarin: Eindhîreg, literally 'Excellent+man+diminutive'. As a girl's name, this would probably be given to someone who looked 'just like' her famous dad.
Adunaic: There is only one possible translation here: Izindu-bêth, 'true-sayer', after Cassandra of Troy. This is an attested Adunaic term.
Valarin: Amanaišalayanûz, 'Unmarred Ainu'. I can't form a diminutive of it, but given the massive religious connotations of the name, plus the -uz marking it as the name of a Vala, I don't think I should. As a bonus, when adapted into Quenya it would probably be something like Amisala, which is a diminutive of sorts.
Black Speech: The original name would be Durburuk, 'Orc-Queen', dominion being the only form of excellence in Mordor. But orcs being orcs, and 'ruler' being a pretty dangerous thing to go around calling yourself, it would quickly be debased into Durbuk.
hS
You would be (allowing for some elision of syllables) Jehikissaros, 'shining person'. I smooshed jehikire (shining) + issaros (person/being) cause 'Jehikireissaros' sounds too syllable-heavy.
Elcalion
And thank you for this post, btw. ^^ Very interesting!
Okay, it seems as though you have a few options here. The most obvious one is Bella (no relation to the English name, which is actually a distant variant of 'Elizabeth') but you could also go with Pulchra or Fōrmōsa.
Sarlissa which refers to a natural kind of beauty.
...(although, if it's what I think it is, it's been one of my favorites for years)...so, instead, have another option that doesn't begin with S!
You could just take Yafah, יפה, the feminine form of 'pretty, but, well...eh. It's nice enough, but very simple and used all the time in conversation. It does seem to be in use as a name, so I don't want to insult it (especially since I suspect I'd like it in context), but I like to look for more unusual words.
Instead, why not go for Na'ah, נאה? The dictionary gives it in the male form, Na'eh, which is why it's translating it as 'handsome' as well as 'pleasant' and 'good-looking'; 'beautiful' fits right in there. Personally, I kind of want to translate it as 'lovely', although the dictionary disagrees and gives me a bunch of other words for that. Either way, it's a nice word (and not the same root as Noa--that's נעה, which I believe has to do with movement (and is not the same as Noah, if anyone's wondering--in Hebrew that's No'akh, נח! Completely different, and probably means 'rest, repose', according to behindthename.com's translation).
~Z
And I am flattered. XD I figured at least you could figure it out just from that context.
...it listed as having a Hebrew origin, so...who knows? Either way, it's a nice name, whether or not it's yours (and I'm sure if yours is different, it's also nice). :)
~Z
In Elvish, obviously. ^_~
Quenya: Several words for 'beautiful', but my favourite is Vanima. You could also have Vanya, Linda, Calwa, or Vanessë ('beauty')... most of which are or come strikingly close to real names.
Sindarin: unless you're talking specifically about hair, the Sindarin words for 'beautiful' are bain and dail. Given that Bain is a male name in Lake-Town, I think I'd add a female suffix and give you Dailwen.
Adunaic: The word Nimîr is the word for elves, meaning 'the Beautiful'. We can add the adjective prefix an- to get the name Animir.
Valarin: What other possibility is there than Amanaišal, 'Unmarred'?
Black Speech: The Black Speech is notably a language without beauty, and no doubt they would be offended by it; I think you can only be Dug-Búbhosh, the Great Filth.
hS
Even 'The Great Filth'!
It's amusing that hair is a related term, as well, considering mine's so long IRL and all. XD
As for other languages, what about Draconic, to crib a language from another of DD's works? (The Door Into... series, to be specific.)
Because Gevie means 'beautiful'.
Elcalion
The "lit" at the end is short for literature.
"doctor" is actually a semi-phonetic pronunciation of my real initials, "DTR." But since that may not be possible to translate in any functional way, it's fine to just use the English word "doctor" instead.
I tried to look into any fictional languages I know to translate others' names, but . . . I don't really know any that are fleshed-out enough to function that way.
—doctorlit, doctorlit
how to translate "literature". "Doctor" would probably be Andris-Elcran "healing person," and literature... maybe "learning" which would correspond fairly well with magical power, which would be Magnis.
So that would make it Andris-Elcran-Magnis
...is to combine 'doctor' and 'literature' and get Sifrofeh, ספרופא or Sifrutfeh, ספרותפה or something? Hrm. 'Doctor' is 'rofeh', רופא, and literature is 'sifrut', ספרות. I think Sifrofeh works best--it looks like a combination of either 'literature' and 'doctor' or 'book' and 'doctor' (the root s.f.r. makes sifrut, but also sefer, book), and is also less clunky. Maybe you're a book doctor!
Ironically, Arabic apparently uses 'duktor' or 'doktor' (not completely sure if it's actually adapted to a U or if that's just the accent of whoever recorded that bit for Duolingo). Hebrew does also have 'doktor', but it's connected to PhDs rather than medicine.
~Z
Funnily, I did do some "book doctoring" in my teenage years. My dad ran the textbook store at the high school that I eventually attended. I spent a lot of my summers working there with Dad, putting books back together with tape and glue gun. It's . . . pretty remarkable how much damage teenage boys can manage to dish out to books in two semesters! So yes, I have done the work of the book doctor.
—doctorlit, Sifrofeh
Quenya: Tintóretecë. 'D' is not known as a first letter in any Quenya word, so I've substituted T (I do that myself when I need to). 'Tintore' is both TTR, and 'Heart-kindler', which is a decent word for doctor. 'Tece' is actually a verbal form of 'to write', so the whole comes out as something like '[D]TR who writes'.
Sindarin: It took a bit of wrangling, but I can give you Dîrathaegerthas, 'Man of healing and letters'. Okay, the T is a Th, but it's close enough. ^_^ (A shorter version is 'Dîrathaegirth', but I figured that final syllable was a bit embarassing in English.)
Adunaic: Adûnitîrbêth is 'west-kindler of words'. From a Numenorean perspective, the West is the land of health and immortality.
At this point I think I shall abandon the challenge; my best Valarin effort was about 14 syllables. So instead:
Valarin: Amanaišalmâchan, 'Unmarred Law'. Both health and song (the Valarin form of literature) are symptoms of the unmarred world.
Black Speech: Wait, I accept the challenge again! Durbaturuk means 'to rule the Orcs'; keeping them alive and telling them what to do sounds like a good route to that!
For bonus points: except for Sindarin, all of these can also be using 'doctor' to mean 'professor'. ^_^
hS
hS, your creativity never fails to astound me. Thank you! Sorry to hear my name breaks Valarin.
I think I like the Quenya best . . .
—doctorlit, tintóretecë
I dub thee Giēñatys Bardillazmoti, 'Healer of Great Writings'
Elcalion
Are there any swear words in these languages?
To answer your question, we have to ask: what is a swear word, anyway? Tolkien invented multiple words relating to sexual intercourse, which could easily be translated by English swear words - but given the way he presented elves as thinking about the subject, they definitely wouldn't be swearing in the original.
If instead we look at native curse words, Quenya actually provides a fair few insults. Nauco is a word for 'Dwarf' that means 'stunted one', and was very offensive; it's hard to imagine mortal Men would take kindly to being called Engwar ('The Sickly Ones') or Fírimar ('Those Apt to Die'). You'd probably offend just about anyone by using words like úvanima (hideous) or úvanima (monster) at them.
Sindarin has cognates to a some of these, being a related language. Naug is the same word as nauco, Firion and Firieth are the male and female forms of the word for 'one who dies, mortal'. Uvanima reappears as Urug, (monster), and there are delightful words like úvelui, meaning 'unloveable'.
Perhaps most delightfully, Sindarin has a word that could pretty much translate as 'swear word': úbedui is translated as 'not fit to say, unspeakable'. It's an adjective, so you'd need to say peth/pith úbedui, 'word/s unspeakable'.
The other Tolkienian languages are pretty fragmentary. Adunaic has a word dolgu which is noted as meaning night (evil) as opposed to lômi, night (neutral). Valarin has the word dušamanûðân, 'marred', which refers to the presence of evil in the world - I imagine they'd use it as a general-purpose comment on anything bad. And the Black Speech...
... is stuffed with swearing, because c'mon, it's Orcish. You can call someone a fool (glob), you can call them dungfilth (pushdug), you can use either skai of sha as an unglossed 'interjection of contempt' (possibly the only actual swear-words in Tolkien). All of these words come from the gloriously untranslated rant that pops up in the middle of The Two Towers: "Uglúk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob búbhosh skai!"
(Tolkien, being Tolkien, actually provided two totally contradictory translations of this at different times; Ardalambion accepts the earlier version, but either way it's highly offensive, and skai! remains an untranslated curse either way.)
hS
It is only mostly though; 'Aurora', in this case, is the Latin for dawn/sunrise, not the celestial phenomenon, so a fully English version would be something along the lines of Dawn Morningstar or Easter Morningstar. Also, given that High Valyrian has cases, I think 'morning' should technically be genitive ('Dawn, star of the morning').
Uh, I can't do conlangs, but I can try Latin?
Jay is probably Corvix 'crow'.
Acacia is Acacia, actually, with the same meaning.
Makes-Things would be Rerumfactor, 'maker of things'.
Mysterious Somebody is Mysterius Aliquis, literally 'mysterious somebody'.
Elcalion might be Asteris Sectator, 'follower of a star'.
Huinesoron becomes Umbraeaquila, 'eagle of shadow'.
Neshomeh is Anima, 'soul'.
Phobos is Timor, 'fear'.
It's nice how many of these are actually semi-recognizable.
To what extent is it true that Latin V is pronounced as English W? We watched an episode of Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries last night in which the word 'vincit' was spoken (by a character who ought to know) as 'winkit', which totally isn't how I'd assume it was read. And that reminded me of the time Heather Dale (actually more likely Ben Deschamps) signed a CD with 'si vales valeo', and read it out as 'see Wally's wallyo' (ahem).
So is this a reflection of how the Romans would have spoken it? Is it a later evolution, church or school or something? And if the hard C is original, does that mean 'Caeser' is really 'Kaiser'?
hS, who cares about this due to currently living in Venta, which doesn't sound as good when it's Wenta
There's some differences between church Latin and reconstructed Ancient Latin (E.g. Whether c is soft or hard E.g. Is 'excelsis' exSELsis or exCHELsis. I'm fairly sure that W for V and Hard C is correct. My mother was trained as a French and Latin teacher and although she hasn't taught Latin for 40 odd years she taught me a little bit and it was definitely Kaesar saying Weni Widi Wicchi. Elcalion
Let's try Andris Andris-Minalli which translates fairly accurately as Dawn Morningstar.
Thank you very much for the translation: 'aurora' does get me something in the dictionary, but 'dawn' is a much simpler starting place given, well, my screen name used to be DawnFire and I named my Plort character in Hebrew translation (not to mention Agent Dawn McKenna, whose birth name turned out to be in Hebrew as well).
Here we go: Aurora Morningstar in Hebrew should be...Shakhar Kokhav-HaBoker, שחר כוכב הבוקר. In a less literal translation, since it seems 'morning star' is a searchable phrase--well, that gives 'Kokhav HaShakhar', כוכב השחר or 'Ayelet HaShakhar', אילת השחר as the translation of 'morning star', so...that might actually be problematic, given that's literally something like 'star of dawn'. You can't be 'Dawn Dawn-Star'! It's kind of nice, but sounds silly!
If I go back to 'aurora', I get HaNetz HaKhamah, something like 'the moment of sunrise'. Pleasant, but I think this will end up too long--'HaNetz HaKhamah Kokhav HaShakhar', הנץ החמה כוכב השחר? That's a mouthful, and it sounds kind of nonsensical, like I've put two phrases together at random.
Shakhar Kokhav HaBoker, שחר כוכב הבוקר may actually be the best option. Kokhav HaBoker was given as a less popular option for 'morning star'; might as well go for it, unless you want to drop the first Shakhar (dawn) altogether and just be Morningstar. This one also, pleasantly, looks like a description--'Dawn, the Morning Star'. Shakhar is also in use as a name for both men and women (unlike Ayelet, which is pretty firmly a female name right now. It has a feminine ending, which helps).
~Z
... which is pretty appropriate, considering. Thanks!
As for your good self:
Quenya: Ára Eärendil would be the easy translation, but who wants that guy's name in theirs? There is actually another Quenya name for Venus, which gives us Áratancol - 'Dawn of the Signifier'.
(Of course, if 'Morningstar' means 'Lucifer', you'd be Áramelkórë. But that's really not a name you'd want to say in public.)
Sindarin: A literal translation would be Minuial Aerendil, but that's way too long. I would suggest instead Gil-Vinuial, 'star of the twilight at dawn'. ('Vinuial' is the same word as 'Minuial'; it just mutates.)
Adunaic: Gimli-azûlada is not a dwarf, but is 'the Eastward Star'. Quite why Tolkien decided to use a dwarf's name for 'star' is beyond me.
Valarin: Amanaišalaþâraigas is the 'Unmarred Sun', which is a very religious concept in (some versions of) the Legendarium. As a metaphor for dawn, I think it fits.
Black Speech: Skai! Sun, stars, dawn - it's all just fire, so Ghâshulûk, 'burn them all' you shall be.
hS
Interestingly your name in High Valyrian has the 'dawn' and 'morning' elements reversed: Ñāqesonqēlo is literally 'morning of the dawn-star'. Onqēlos (lit. 'dawn-star') is given as the HV version of 'Morning Star' so I used the alternate word Ñāqes for 'morning'.
Elcalion
Stand by for some rough Hebrew translations, and possibly a couple in Yiddish if I really get into it...
~Z
I would say I could do Vandarian, the language I'm trying to invent for an original work, but I haven't actually worked out any vocabulary for it yet...
I'm nice and easy, at least: Stofea-Crubint, "snow-fire".
Your name would translate as Nivisīgnis 'fire of snow'. I did try to find 'blaze', 'wildfire' or something similar, but it seems that there's no specific translation for those.
Impressively quick--Snowblaze is Sheleg Lohet, שלג לוהט--'Blazing Snow! That sounds awesome. Something about the word 'lohet', I think--it's one of those words that makes me happy to hear, possibly because it's kind of fun to say and brings to mind poetry and campfires and so on.
~Z
You are Perzysōno, Fire of the Snow!
... y'know, provided you use a language that has words for things like 'snow'.
Quenya: Ruinilossë, literally 'blaze-snow'.
Sindarin: Naurlos, again, 'fire-snow'.
Adunaic: Has no word for 'snow' or 'fire'; but sea-foam is similar in appearance to snow, and there is a word for 'kindler', so I'll go Rothnitîr, 'foam-kindler'.
Valarin: Has a word for fire, for some reason. Ice, in Middle-earth, is a symptom of the Marring, so I'll go with Ulludušamanûðânuruš, 'marred-water-fire'. Possibly a bit long even for Valarin!
Black Speech: It's hot in Mordor. Snow melts. You are Ghâshronk, the fire-pool. :)
... and because you're another temperature name, you too can have an Isaac Newton Secret Language name: Oytorf-Owtorf, or 'very cold thing-very hot thing'. ^_^
hS
In Yiddish, that is. Technically, it's two words mashed together--zingen and mir ('to sing', in conjugated form, and 'we').
(On a brief tangent: in standard word order, it'd be mir zingen--ich zing, du zingst, er/zie/es zingt, mir zingen, etc. In the German equivalent, I believe it's wir singen, though I might be off.)
~Z, always ready to go on a language tangent
considering that my language is made up of nothing but nouns. I also don't have a word for "singing" yet, but I suppose it could be kind of similar to a ritual chant, which would mean magic, Magnis.
I could try pluralising Elcran "person" (although I haven't yet worked out if plurals are allowed.)
So the best I've got is Elcrans-Magnis
'We sing' would be Canimus, 'let us sing' would be Canāmus and 'we are singing' would be Sumus Canentibus. One of these is not like the others.
Also, reversing the word order, but omitting the accentuation that would make "singen wir?" a question, turns it into a colloquial suggestion (short for "lasst uns singen").
So that’s how I read your name: "Let’s sing".
HG
I no longer completely remember all the thought that went into choosing it (it's been two years, after all), but my song associations with this screen name are:
Lomir alle zingen a zemerl, 'let's all sing a little song', and a longer bit from a different song which runs as follows:
Hobn mir a nigndl [...] zingen mir es, zingen mir es, klingt es azoy sheyn..., 'we have a little tune [...] we sing it, we sing it, it sounds so beautiful' (there's more, about how the tune has been sung through generations, in good times and bad, and, basically, the entire family sang it as younglings...and on into a chorus about singing it, though I can't remember a word here and a word there, hence the lack of writing it out).
But really, having my screen name read as 'let's sing' is pretty awesome.
~Z
PS: lasst uns singen--I think all of that exists in Yiddish, but isn't used in that way. Lasst looks like a conjugated form of what, in Yiddish, is lozen, to 'let'; uns is only used as undzer, I think, 'our'. Actually, lomir, 'let us', from earlier might come from 'lozen'? I'm not quite sure right now. Anyway, 'let's sing' in Yiddish would be 'lomir zingen'; the closest I can get to lasst uns singen is probably 'lozt mir zingen'? My brain now wants to say 'lozt undz zingen' is a thing, but I'm not sure if it is or I've just looked at the German for too long! At any rate, that's closer to a fragment of a sentence that amounts to '[please] allow us to sing' (bitte, Reb Nokhem, lozt undz zingen!--'please, Mr Nokhem (Nakhum, in Hebrew--first name), let us sing!') rather than 'c'mon, everyone, let's sing this song!'
"lasst uns singen" can be a plea or a suggestion, depending on context. "Bitte lasst uns singen" would be used to informally plea to more than one person. ("Bitte, Nakhum, lass uns singen" would informally address one person and would only be appropriate if we were on first-name-terms. Formally pleading to one or more persons would be "Bitte lassen Sie uns singen".)
"lozt mir zingen" looks to me like a singular form of "lozt undz zingen" ("lasst mich singen" = "let me sing", which would definitely be a plea). But that’s apparently a misconception caused by the German "mir" being a singular pronoun (dative case of "ich" = "I", as in "gib mir dieses Ding" = "give this thing to me").
HG
Quenya: Líralvë is 'We are singing', Lirilwë is 'We sing'. The latter seems slightly more euphonious to me, but it's a coin toss.
Sindarin: Linnam is a direct cognate to both of the above (we only know one Sindarin present tense). Mercy be, a Sindarin name that doesn't involve consonant mutations!
(It was lovely to be able to directly translate your name with no weird word use. Now onto the tricky ones.)
Adunaic: Nênbêthin, which I believe to mean 'we [female] are speaking'. 'Nên' is the first person plural pronoun; 'bith' is 'speak', which becomes 'bêthi' in the present continuative. '-in' is the feminine name ending.
(Okay, that one wasn't too bad.)
Valarin: Šebethaþar means 'Festival air'. In English you can occasionally use 'air' to mean 'song', but also, the air above a Valarin festival would definitely be filled with song.
Black Speech: Krimpatum is 'bindingness'. As we all know, all songs in Mordor are marching songs, intended to bind their singers together. Hence... (Literally it's 'to bind-ness'.)
hS
"We are singing" is best translated by the present indicative, which would make you Vāedi. Or for the sense of "we sing" regardless of when it occurs we could use the aorist which would make you Vāediti. I think that sounds better, plus languages having an aorist are so rare that I feel the need to use it when possible. Elcalion, grammatical
... no, I already did you, too (I'd forgotten that). So... I guess I'll do everyone else instead? Pay it forward, etc.
Previous translation threads, for reference:
This is where I translated myself and wound up with a Dovahzul name via Edhelistar.
This is where I gave Scape her names, and received my first Tau name, plus one in (40K) Eldar.
This is where we all went off-the-wall crazy and started flinging around Quenya, Sindarin, Adunaic, Valarin (all me), Tau'sia (Scape), occasional Black Speech (me again), and in one instance Isaac Newton's invented language (... that was me again). Okay, so mostly it was me going crazy and being abetted by Scape.
So, how do Elcalion's list shake out in the Middle-earth quintet?
Abbreviations - Q. = Quenya, S. = Sindarin, A. = Adunaic, V. = Valarin, B. = Black Speech.
Jay: Q. Quácolúnë ('Blue-crow'), S. Crabangalan ('Daylight crow'), A. Khô ('Crow'), V. Šebethaþar ('Party in the Sky', lit. 'air festival'), B. Duggûl ('Filthy wraith')
Acacia: Q. Necelornë ('Thorn-tree'), S. Eregorn (lit. 'Holly-tree'), A. Zagarinzil ('Sword-flower'), V. Rušuriniðil ('Fire-flower'), B. Ologhâsh ('Troll-fire', ie, it has thorns that can cut a troll's hide)
Makes-Things: Q. Carilonato ('Maker of Things'), S. Echedin ('I make'), A. Zagarmagân ('Blade-wright'), V. Akašânaškaduruš ('Commander of the Ring of Fire', ie the forge), B. Snaga ('Slave')
Mysterious Somebody: Q. Uhanyanessë ('The Unknown Name'), S. Losthir ('The Empty Face'), A. Bâbêth ('The Silent'), V. Phelûnmachallumâmûz ('Power in the House of Thrones'), B. Durbat-Sharkû ('Old Man Ruler')
Elcalion ('follower of the bright star'): Q. Elcalion (ibid.), S Elengail ('Bright Star'), A. Pharazgimlôn ('Golden Star'), V. Tulukharušurûz ('He of the Yellow Fire'), B. Ghâshbúrz (The Dark Fire).
Huinesoron ('eagle of the shadow'): Q. Huinesoron (ibid.), S. Dúathoron ('Shadow-eagle'), A. Nâlonarâk ('Shadow-Eagle'), V. Aþâradušamanûðân ('Marred Messenger'), B. Búrzgûl ('Black Wraith')
Neshomeh ('soul'): Q. Nissendë ('Woman of Heart'), S. Indiel ('Heart-daughter'), A. Yôzâira ('Gift of Longing'), V. Phelûnuruš ('Hearthfire'), B. Ghâshdurbat ('Ruling Fire')
Phobos ('fear'): Q. Lómindossë ('Night on the Heart'), S. Duinnath ('Darkness on all thoughts'), A. Ugrazrôn ('Shadow on the Sea'), V. Akašândušamanûðân ('The One decrees the Marring'), B. Burzulûk ('Darken Them All'). Also Khudzul Zanûn Asalân ('Bringer of Shadow')
All four Boarders were already covered in the previous thread(s), so that's fun. ^_^ Okay, back in the groove now; on to the new requests.
hS
(Thoronowath is a new coinage in this post; there is actually a direct ancestor of huine, phuine, but that makes for a very clunky name. Shathûruzbadazan is also new, and is actually pretty close in meaning; I'm as surprised as you are.)
hS
My name is pretty straightforward, I think...
See, Hebrew has two words each for 'sun' and 'moon'. One each is common use, and one each is literary.
In the commonly used terms, you could be Shemesh v'Yareyakh, שמש וירח.
In the literary, you'd be Khamah u'Levanah, חמה ולבנה.
We could also combine these to get Shemesh v'Levanah, שמש ולבנה, or Khamah v'Yareyakh, חמה וירח, but that seems kind of odd--like saying 'daybreak and mud', or 'countenance and cold', or something. I think you're best off choosing either the literary or the general.
~Z
Your name translates as Sōletlūna, literally 'sun and moon'. Nice and simple.
Your name after all is constructed from two of the four 'genders' of High Valyrian (lunar, solar, aquatic and terrestrial).
You are Vēzoshūrā!
There's actually a specific Quenya phrase meaning 'Sun and Moon', which is Anar Isilyë; Isilanaryë isn't too bad as a name.
Sindarin would go for Ithilanor, just 'moon-sun'.
Adunaic has a word meaning 'Sun and Moon', which is Ûriyat; the literal meaning is 'the two suns', which is pretty delightful.
Valarin has words for both, which would give Aþâraigasphanaikelûth, but given the lofty status of the Lights in Valinor (plus, that's eight or nine syllables), I'd be inclined more towards Aþârainiðumil - 'The Appointed Flowers' (the Moon being a flower and the Sun a fruit of the Two Trees).
The Black Speech has neither word, but what are the sun and moon? They're the fires that rule the night and day, so you can be Durbghâsh - 'dominion-fire'.
hS
What about for those of us with nonsense names? :P
...but I can try and work out what you'd become in the proper language I'll eventually get some actual vocabulary for.
It would probably be along the lines of "Iximas" although I'm not completely sure.
Iximaz becomes איקסימז--only the pronunciation changes (to eeks-see-mahz). A bit like Xes and Os--'iks-igul'. I guess the first part translates to X, and if I search the rest...X, the musical note si, and either the abbreviation for an even number or the river Meuse? Fittingly nonsensical.
~Z
Ixīmas seems to be the closest you can get phonologically in Latin; the meaning is apparently 'man of a hen harrier', which seems rather odd. If, on the other hand, I translate 'nonsense', you would be Nonsīgnificātiō, 'meaningless'.
High Valyrian appears not to have a word for nonsense per se, but I have coined a name for you: Dosylviosa, literally 'not-using-wisdom' or 'not-by-wisdom' which is as close to 'nonsense' as I could get.
Alternatively, if Iximaz were a native HV word, the closest match in the phonology would be Issimassi.
Elcalion, coining phrases
Looks like I literally translated it as 'nothing': Q. Únyárë, 'No Tale', S. Aringath 'Without Notions', A. Bawâbêth, 'the Wind-Speaker', V. Amanaišalšebeth, 'the Unmarred Air', B. Ashgûl, 'that One Wraith'.
Which is... a bit of a cop-out, isn't it? Perhaps instead, we could do what the Elves did when Arômêz showed up, and transliterate the meaningless name (in that case into Oromë and Araw). So:
Quenya likes to just drop terminal Zs from adopted name, and change the preceding vowel into an E (Manwe gets this treatment), which takes us to 'Iximë'. X is technically allowed as a letter in Q., but it just doesn't look right; I think it would be softened to Issimë. That's a decent Quenya word, meaning something like 'We know ourselves'.
Sindarin lacks both X and Z. The Araw example suggests they would initially cut back to 'Ixi', and then... well, given that 'enni' is a word, I imagine you end up as Issi. Which looks like it might be an archaic plural of the third-person pronoun (which is gender-neutral).
Adunaic loves its Zs, but lacks X, so we're going straight for 'Izimaz'. It doesn't look like Z ends very many words, so they'd probably slap an ending on it; that gives Izimazin/Izimazun (feminine/masculine, because of course the Numenoreans have a gendered language. Actually per Tolkien it's more accurately a sexed language - har, har - which only uses non-neutral genders for things which are or belong to fe/male beings.) No known meaning, though it could be folk-etymologically-derived from izrê+mâ+in/un, 'sweetheart+with+[f/m]'.
Valarin thinks your name is waaaay too short. Q. 'axar' comes from V. 'anaškad', and 'axan' from 'akašân', so we're looking at a word starting 'Iniški' or 'Ikiši'. 'Maz' could be adopted directly as 'mâz', giving us... Iniškimâz? No known meaning, but the ending suggests one of the Valar; you get to hand out with Elcalion, who also got a Vala name.
Black Speech really loves medial consonant clusters. I want to suggest 'Ixmaz', but there's no attested X. Iskmaz, perhaps? Pretty obviously it has no meaning, though if you wanted to be Ishinazg you'd be 'In the Ring'.
hS
"I imagine you end up as Issi. Which looks like it might be an archaic plural of the third-person pronoun (which is gender-neutral)."
This is so many levels of perfect I can't even begin to describe. Thank you!
Could you translate my username SomeRandomPersonAccount?
The best I have is Parsine-Elcran "chaotic (random) person"
Kheshbon Ploni Randomali, חשבון פלוני רנדומלי? Literally, 'the account of an unknown, random person'? This does make for a male-coded name, though--you could also go for Kheshbon Ben Adam Randomali, חשבון בן אדם רנדומלי, or Kheshbon Ben Enosh Randomali, חשבון בן אנוש רנדומלי 'the account of a random human being'? Technically the terms 'ben enosh' and 'ben adam' are masculine, but they're also understood to be general terms for 'human being'. What can I say--Hebrew is a bi-gendered language. I think there are workarounds being thought up here and there, and there are a number of words which can be either masculine or feminine, ('wind' is one of them, though it mostly takes the feminine), but overall, it's one or the other.
~Z
Thanks for translating my name Zingenmir!
I think the closest I can get is persōna, 'mask, character', which gives Cuiusdam Fortuītī Hominis Persōna 'the character of some random person'.
Quenya: Quenúhandi Epessë, or 'Person-nonunderstood [Adopted] name'. 'Non-understood' (literally 'un-knowledge' works either for random meaning 'acts randomly', or meaning 'picked at random'.
Sindarin: Athaldaith, 'The Mark of the Stranger'. 'Some random person' is taken to mean 'someone I don't know', a stranger or foreigner. Taith means a mark, sign, or symbol.
Adunaic: Bâsaphudi-Rûkh, 'Non-understood Shout' is a bit long for an Adunaic name; I'd guess it would be a name given to a foreigner. 'Shout' is the best I can do for 'Account', and here implies that the Numenoreans don't speak your language, so (rather offensively) just describe it as nonsense yelling.
Valarin: Ayanûzaphelûn, 'Dwelling of an Ainu'. Ainu (demigod, angel) is literally the only person word in the Valarin corpus, so you get to be The House of Some Random Angel.
Black Speech: Snaga-ishi, or 'A slave here'. If you're a random person in Mordor, nobody cares about you; you're just another slave'. One who's here, at the moment.
These always get a bit grim towards the end...
hS
Hmmm... I can still see. I did not expect myself to be an angel, more of a question mark though. I didn’t know that random people are literally slaves in Mordor, and I did not finish the first book( I stopped reading at the mushroom farm).
Also is it just me or do I sense a coincidence with the slave part?
The reason it's tricky is that it has only a handful of words. This site lists all of them: about 30, with at least three being compounds of the others. So a) every name created from them will be horrible, and b) there's a lot of repetition.
Though really, I ought to be taking into account the handful of Orcish names attested in the Third Age. Grishnákh, Uglúk, Shagrat, Gorbag, Lagduf, Muzgash, Mauhúr, Lugdush, Radbug, Ufthak... if nothing else, they give us a feel for what these names should sound like. (Also, Gorbag appears to contain the element bag, 'cess'; Muzgash may use a debased form of ghâsh, 'fire'; Uglúk could end in -ûk, 'all'; and Lugdush seems to have lug, 'tower'. So they're not entirely untranslatable...!)
hS
Wait a minute, isn’t black speech the language of the Nazgul? The ring wraiths? The 9 mortal men doomed to die?
Sauron, along with creating evil rings, also created a language for his servants. The original form is used by the Nazgul (Nazg+Gul, 'Ring+Wraith'), and on the One Ring (Ash Nazg) itself; the Orcs use a debased form. But because the corpus is so small, we pretty much have to treat both forms as the same language to get anywhere.
hS
I think I have a problem. Whenever someone mentions Sauron or Saruman I think of Saruman the white or the dark lord Sauron.
And Gandalf sold fireworks? I guess he’s called Gandalf the grey because of the smoke made from those fireworks?
Those are the only Sauron and Saruman I know of. Are you saying you get them mixed up with each other?
Given that Gandalf also smokes a lot of pipeweed, you may be onto something there... :D
hS
Or is it Saruman sounds like Sauron. Oh man.
I’m fine with being called Snaga-ishi. I found it amusing. But thanks Huinesoron!
'Account' is stretching the bounds of HV vocab, but in Essos you would be Kelinītsys, 'the random one' (possibly also the native High Valyrian word for gambler)
Elcalion
I actually gamble, but the money is “for” the Singapore scout association( why are even told to sell gambling tickets in the first place? Aren’t there better ways to raise funds other than abusing people with gambling addiction?). But thanks for translating it! Should I also translate names, but in Chinese? But then, 我的华文很差。